(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
GN[European Championship 2015 (Top 24) -r3 Lisy 1p (B) vs Dinerstein 3p (W)]PW[Alexandr Dinerstein]PB[Pavol Lisy]WR[3p]BR[1p]DT[2015-07-28]RO[3]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[snowy [1k\]: breakfast!!
]RE[B+5.50]
;B[pq]
;W[pd]
;B[cp]
;W[dc]
;B[qo]
;W[fq]
;B[dq]
;W[iq]
;B[kq]
;W[ce]C[EGC2015b [-\]: Dinerstein answare like in blitz
EGC2015b [-\]: he play so fast
]
;B[nc]
;W[qf]C[snowy [1k\]: why ~.~
EGC2015b [-\]: who knows, maybe he prepared fuseki before game
]
;B[jc]C[U [?\]: its hard to say what he prepares
snowy [1k\]: i'd prepare my tea
]
;W[hc]
;B[pb]
;W[lc]
;B[ne]C[Grunman [8k\]: L16?
]
;W[kd]
;B[qc]
;W[qi]
;B[jd]
;W[kf]
;B[je]
;W[mf]
;B[he]
;W[fc]C[gogonuts [4d\]: wow, he still won that game yesterday?
gogonuts [4d\]: amazing
PlaySlow [10k\]: So fast. Is he even reading:)
]
;B[ig]
;W[nf]C[EGC2015b [-\]: he is reading in opponent time
]
;B[di]
;W[fo]C[gogonuts [4d\]: from q18 it was automatic for a while
gogonuts [4d\]: though h15 also makes sense at h16
]
;B[gp]
;W[gq]C[gogonuts [4d\]: but that was b
PlaySlow [10k\]: White would make a Bulge shape then with g16
gogonuts [4d\]: w didnt have  alot of choice
oldsan [5d\]: W thic and preferable
gogonuts [4d\]: h16 g16 g15 h15 h14 j16 j15 ect
gogonuts [4d\]: even to me
]
;B[qk]C[gogonuts [4d\]: b still has m16 connection in case of emergency, so b is safe everywhere too
gogonuts [4d\]: q9 is ambitious - the left looks more natural to me. but that makes c15 look good, so b didnt play
Grunman [8k\]: does Alexandr play any less complicated games?:)
gogonuts [4d\]: lots of choices now
gogonuts [4d\]: might brood for 30 mins
Grunman [8k\]: interrupt o3 or n9 area
gogonuts [4d\]: can alos plonk down a stone on the left
gogonuts [4d\]: or keep bottom and right miai with p5
gogonuts [4d\]: or p3
gogonuts [4d\]: or ...
maciek [2d\]: left side now
maciek [2d\]: c9
gogonuts [4d\]: the elft side gets one first attention
gogonuts [4d\]: but its not clear cut
gogonuts [4d\]: becuase of g3 answer, w cannot really attack on the left
gogonuts [4d\]: and because of c15 b cant make territory well
gogonuts [4d\]: so even though it seems to be screaming play here, its not clear
]
;W[hp]C[billlin [9d\]: this move seems too slow.. 
gogonuts [4d\]: but awesome too
gogonuts [4d\]: :-)
gogonuts [4d\]: make b defend the left, break the right without worry, then if things go well use sente to remore left territory
gogonuts [4d\]: wishful?
gogonuts [4d\]: but i dont think its bad
gogonuts [4d\]: before, it wasnt easy to ignore b L5
gogonuts [4d\]: so h4 also preempts explosive moyo groth on the right
]
;B[ko]C[gogonuts [4d\]: except for the wishful, maybe i should be ws spokesperson :-)
]
;W[nn]
;B[np]C[maciek [2d\]: h4 was...
gogonuts [4d\]: awesome?
maciek [2d\]: like making atea when u have already one done ;)
gogonuts [4d\]: with the old leaves?
maciek [2d\]: :)
maciek [2d\]: i meant u have two cups of tea now
maciek [2d\]: r7
]
;W[qn]C[Grunman [8k\]: is black overconcentrated here?
gogonuts [4d\]: i think o6 got b a little confused
gogonuts [4d\]: o4 is unsatisfying
gogonuts [4d\]: maybe p9 insteaf of o4?
gogonuts [4d\]: now o6 is ina comfy helping spot
]
;B[pn]
;W[qm]C[Grunman [8k\]: rescue o6 stone, then connect under r9?
]
;B[pm]
;W[ro]C[gogonuts [4d\]: no, cant help o6
]
;B[qp]C[gogonuts [4d\]: o6 only function now is to make approaches from afar stronger for w
]
;W[ql]
;B[pl]
;W[rk]C[gogonuts [4d\]: actually moving o6 is transforming a weak stone into a weak group
Grunman [8k\]: into a which weak group?
FryMe [4k\]: itself
gogonuts [4d\]: o6 kept b from answering r6 at q5
]
;B[pk]C[gogonuts [4d\]: that way it fullfuilled 90% of its duty
FryMe [4k\]: o6 is no useless stone even if it end up dying
Grunman [8k\]: oh)
gogonuts [4d\]: if you move it, you have a 2 stone group :-)
FryMe [4k\]: I can reccomend the elementary go series attack and defense on this Grunman, they cover this really well
]
;W[rj]C[gruenwald [2d\]: D7?
]
;B[dl]
;W[rp]
;B[rq]C[billlin [9d\]: b leading, we can see L5 and h4, clearly b gained
]
;W[cg]C[liusasori [4d\]: but w has more points and a bit more solid no ? or still the weakness around q13 with b power on bottom give him the advantage ?
PlaySlow [10k\]: Can B play L9 now to gain immediate territory?
bleen [1d\]: it is too early to be concerned about territory right now
liusasori [4d\]: no, l9 is not big and easily reducible
bleen [1d\]: of course you should take care that you will gain enough in the end but pure points moves are not adequate right now
liusasori [4d\]: like b l9 w o10 : b has almost nothing in center  
liusasori [4d\]: b should have l12 and h6 to dream about big moyo center
PlaySlow [10k\]: Hmm, i understand. But then how Black turn his thickness into territory? Leaning on top white group? 
Guyome [2d\]: "do not use thickness to make territory" they say
PlaySlow [10k\]: Yeah but it is not 100% true according to some dan players.
liusasori [4d\]: i would say b should attack around q13 because it's the only weakness
PlaySlow [10k\]: If there is no white group.to attack
]
;B[bh]C[liusasori [4d\]: here p11 seems big points for both : would allow b to enlarge center and still aiming at the white weakness
]
;W[qd]C[liusasori [4d\]: whereas w would enlarge his corner and reducing center
Guyome [2d\]: it's one of the proverbs that is always true according to an article in Go World 
Guyome [2d\]: :)
PlaySlow [10k\]: :) Yeah i have also heard it Guyome but i am a little skeptical about truths
PlaySlow [10k\]: I want them to be proven, not accepted without proof;p 
PlaySlow [10k\]: Liusasori thanks for answers by the way, they really opens up my 10kyu mind:)
Guyome [2d\]: read the article then
Guyome [2d\]: in this case, l9 adds something like 10-12 points to b's territory
Guyome [2d\]: just by playing the forcing moves around  O10, w can get around the same amount
FryMe [4k\]: better not to play gote moves when there's sente
Guyome [2d\]: b is the one having more thickness here
Guyome [2d\]: he should not settle for making the same amount of points than w in this area
Guyome [2d\]: just my two cents of course, i could be wildly mistaken :)
PlaySlow [10k\]: Hmm, i understand Guyome. So since B has significant power at bottom right, he should use it for enlarging his moyo. Not settling for little territory.
PlaySlow [10k\]: Even if there are not white groups to be significantly attacked, B can still use his power
FryMe [4k\]: in this game it's hard though, there's not much weakness for him to exploit
]
;B[rc]C[liusasori [4d\]: you are welcome PlaySlow
Guyome [2d\]: yes, Playslow, I would say that 
liusasori [4d\]: now move around p11 are important for both
liusasori [4d\]: if b got p11 he can play h6 after and center turn to be big then
FryMe [4k\]: h6 I've been oogling for a while now not being sure if it is as sente as it looks like
PlaySlow [10k\]: Thank you also Guyome :)
Guyome [2d\]: :)
]
;W[lk]C[oldsan [5d\]: bad story for B
FryMe [4k\]: if b kills O6 for good, white will build a center yeah?
oldsan [5d\]: yeah
]
;B[kh]C[gogonuts [4d\]: b thinks m9 is tastier than o6
NightShift [6d\]: looks like a good game for pavol
Guyome [2d\]: do you think trying to build the area around G10-G11 as a moyo by harassing the M9 stone is a feasable strategy at his point ?
]
;W[jk]C[Guyome [2d\]: ok, not anymore :)
FryMe [4k\]: split around H6 now?
NightShift [6d\]: l8 l9 h9 
]
;B[kj]
;W[kk]C[Durikun [7k\]: o11? ;D
]
;B[ij]C[FryMe [4k\]: o11 seems bad direction
FryMe [4k\]: it's hard for white to connect in that direction anyways right?
Durikun [7k\]: yup, u right :)
oldsan [5d\]: solid W G3 group reliable reinforcement
]
;W[hl]C[FryMe [4k\]: black aiming for points around G11 it seems to me
]
;B[en]
;W[el]
;B[em]C[Cruzifixus [6k\]: I think around g7 are no points for both
Cruzifixus [6k\]: w needs an eye for l9-group
FryMe [4k\]: can we know the times on the clock that are left?
]
;W[lb]C[EGC2015b [-\]: W - 1:32, B - 1:13
FryMe [4k\]: ty
NightShift [6d\]: and the yose begins
FryMe [4k\]: can white catch up in yose?
oldsan [5d\]: W seems heavy tank
gogonuts [4d\]: w playing this game like a mouse nibbling the cheese
]
;B[nb]C[GoPostal [3d?\]: not good for the cheese monger 
EGC2015b [-\]: W now pick s stone, then throw it back in to bowl, he seems angry
]
;W[hj]
;B[hi]C[NightShift [6d\]: every time he counts he is losing by 5pts
NightShift [6d\]: :p
]
;W[gj]
;B[ik]
;W[il]C[GoPostal [3d?\]: argument for not counting
Grunman [8k\]: m10?
NightShift [6d\]: w wants d9
GoPostal [3d?\]: is w t16 sente against corner? 
NightShift [6d\]: nope
NightShift [6d\]: it's an L+2, just the two are both on same side :)
]
;B[gi]C[GoPostal [3d?\]: interesting way to reduce the problem to a familiar one
]
;W[jj]C[GoPostal [3d?\]: w d9 next
NightShift [6d\]: maybe b will j11
]
;B[ii]C[justhinkin [1k\]: i can not attend my quiz now, because of waiting next move
hgffdx: this game doesn't look like a Pavol's one
hgffdx: Alex traped him into a boring game :o)
FryMe [4k\]: I have the feeling that alex is the trapped one
hgffdx: lol maybe, i didn't count
]
;W[ej]C[Insei [3d\]: is white good at yose ?
]
;B[dj]C[hgffdx: yeah
NightShift [6d\]: he's good at everthing now
NightShift [6d\]: his yose improved in china
NightShift [6d\]: b*
gogonuts [4d\]: in korea they told him "fight", in china they told him "eat"?
]
;W[ch]
;B[ci]C[Holub [1d\]: figheating
]
;W[fh]
;B[fi]C[hitaus [2k\]: it's easier to fight after eating
Scorpio24 [15k\]: ????
FryMe [4k\]: ????
]
;W[dr]
;B[cr]
;W[do]
;B[eo]
;W[ep]C[Intet [2d\]: good moove this threatning d9 for cutting e11 after
]
;B[dp]
;W[dk]
;B[ck]
;W[ek]C[fuzhou [4d\]: e11?
apina [1d\]: e11 d7?
fuzhou [4d\]: connect d6 - f7
apina [1d\]: have to count more than one move, too much for me :P
]
;B[ei]
;W[dm]
;B[cl]
;W[fm]
;B[dn]
;W[fn]
;B[cn]
;W[bg]C[IAmRa [6k\]: b13 is kinda weird. hard to believe there is no bigger moves
kashi122 [1k\]: I thought similar... but then b b13 will give lots of aaji to b
]
;B[jr]C[kashi122 [1k\]: I would've preferred this one for b though
IAmRa [6k\]: for sure but it is so goteish. 
kashi122 [1k\]: let's trust a 3p knows better  ;-)
fuzhou [4d\]: pushing would be sente and then the peep at d14 almost captures f12 -maybe
]
;W[ln]
;B[kn]C[kashi122 [1k\]: yes, thaty's the aji I thought at least...
]
;W[lm]
;B[mo]
;W[oj]
;B[oe]C[momiji [3d\]: b doing well for territory
]
;W[of]
;B[pe]
;W[qe]
;B[ib]C[tchitchi [1d\]: white is still ahead with the komi
]
;W[md]
;B[oc]
;W[hb]C[kyzma84 [2d\]: b +4-7 
fuzhou [4d\]: t15 or t14, thats the question
]
;B[fe]C[Intet [2d\]: you should always plays the sente one
Intet [2d\]: a good monkey is a sente monkey
]
;W[rd]
;B[ed]
;W[ec]C[jkgjkjlll: whoa, Dinerstein! must see that one =)
PlaySlow [10k\]: Where are the biggest end game moves atm? N11, H2?
PlaySlow [10k\]: E2 B1
]
;B[eg]C[PlaySlow [10k\]: B11*
]
;W[sc]
;B[sb]
;W[sd]C[PlaySlow [10k\]: And e13 area?
]
;B[rb]C[HappyLook [5d\]: e2 is the biggest gote move i think
Holub [1d\]: better play some sente before :D
HappyLook [5d\]: ofc :) but PlaySlow asked about biggest :)
HappyLook [5d\]: not best, but biggest :)
PlaySlow [10k\]: :)
profi [2d\]: n11 
profi [2d\]: or b11 )
]
;W[jq]C[Grunman [8k\]: oh) that smells professional)
]
;B[jp]
;W[ir]
;B[kr]C[bbred [3k\]: m11?
PlaySlow [10k\]: N11 is better tacticalwise or not?
]
;W[er]C[Felipe2: 2nd line is where points are in yose
bbred [3k\]: then t4?
]
;B[ho]C[Holub [1d\]: h19 now ?
Holub [1d\]: oh
Felipe2: t4 probably later, w has to s6 there anyway
]
;W[ah]
;B[bi]
;W[ai]
;B[aj]
;W[ag]C[bbred [3k\]: mental not to selfe a12!
bbred [3k\]: note
]
;B[ip]C[bbred [3k\]: w b3 (2nd line)
]
;W[hq]
;B[bj]
;W[lh]
;B[ki]C[HappyLook [5d\]: k1 l1 m4 m5 j5 j6 l4 k5 m3 combo could be funny :)
]
;W[mi]
;B[pj]
;W[oo]C[noob1d [5d?\]: w leading slightly
]
;B[po]
;W[op]
;B[oq]
;W[pi]C[noob1d [5d?\]: I think we can expect w to win
]
;B[nl]
;W[lo]
;B[lp]
;W[no]
;B[go]
;W[fp]C[bbred [3k\]: se knows all
]
;B[ds]C[Mukti [3d\]: I would count b a bit ahead.
bbred [3k\]: k14
noob1d [5d?\]: w played very nice game
noob1d [5d?\]: solid is good vs pavol
]
;W[jf]C[bbred [3k\]: yay
]
;B[if]C[bbred [3k\]: k11
]
;W[es]
;B[cs]
;W[hk]
;B[sp]
;W[rn]
;B[df]
;W[cf]
;B[nj]C[liusasori [4d\]: b is ahead by about 4 points in my count
]
;W[ok]
;B[oi]
;W[ni]
;B[nk]
;W[oh]
;B[ha]
;W[ga]
;B[ia]
;W[gc]C[HappyLook [5d\]: y, b+4-5
]
;B[km]
;W[mn]
;B[mp]C[EGC2015b [-\]: in computing the score have i mind, that tournament is played according AGA rules
bbred [3k\]: 7.5 komi and w plays last, right, funny rules
Holub [1d\]: so who is winning ? :P :)
]
;W[de]C[Song17 [5d?\]: b it seems
]
;B[ee]C[Song17 [5d?\]: but less than 4 points I think
]
;W[dg]
;B[ef]C[momiji [3d\]: b at the moment
]
;W[so]
;B[sq]C[Song17 [5d?\]: EGC2015b, do you know the result of Ali vs. Tanguy?
]
;W[io]
;B[in]
;W[hn]
;B[jo]
;W[gn]
;B[io]C[EGC2015b [-\]: sry idk
kmr [1d\]: EGC with AGA rules?!
noob1d [5d?\]: this will be a .5 game
]
;W[dh]
;B[dd]
;W[cd]
;B[eh]
;W[kg]C[Holub [1d\]: e3 f10 ?
Holub [1d\]: i mean :D
]
;B[ll]
;W[ml]
;B[kl]C[Holub [1d\]: both by b ...
]
;W[mk]
;B[nm]
;W[mm]
;B[jl]
;W[li]
;B[fj]
;W[fk]
;B[im]
;W[hm]
;B[pf]
;W[pg]
;B[le]
;W[ke]
;B[me]
;W[kc]
;B[lf]
;W[lg]C[negesog [7k\]: B win 
songokuss3 [2k\]: :D
]
;B[eq]C[negesog [7k\]: 1.5
]
;W[fr]
;B[is]
;W[hs]
;B[js]
;W[jh]
;B[ji]
;W[jg]
;B[ih]C[Lice [4d\]: i get b+2.5
Lice [4d\]: on japanese rules though
Lice [4d\]: with 7.5 komi.. oops
]
;W[gd]C[Lice [4d\]: so 2.5/3.5
]
;B[ge]C[noob1d [5d?\]: yes b clearly ahead
pastlink [?\]: +5
bbred [3k\]: n19
noob1d [5d?\]: k18 
Grunman [8k\]: k18 and ko?
barleya: B + 5.5
]
;W[on]
;B[pp]
;W[ma]
;B[na]C[noob1d [5d?\]: b11 instead of c13 
noob1d [5d?\]: left side became too big for b
]
;W[hd]
;B[jb]C[rsg [5k\]: Does dame count in aga rules?
]
;W[ka]C[liusasori [4d\]: I like G13 area...so perfect
Intet [2d\]: yes passing stone at the end
]
;B[pc]
;W[qj]C[rsun [4d\]: dame is good training
]
;B[kb]
;W[mj]
;B[ol]
;W[oi]
;B[ie]
;W[ld]
;B[od]
;W[lj]
;B[nd]C[Grunman [8k\]: what reason for aga rules. it's european
]
;W[ic]C[flobby [-\]: dame is a young owman
]
;B[om]
;W[fd]C[flobby [-\]: woman
]
;B[mc]C[storn [3k\]: lol
softlight [2d\]: neither it's japan
storn [3k\]: dont close your dame
barleya: japan is a dame?
]
;W[mb]
;B[id]
;W[la]
;B[ja]C[barleya: A dame and a dozen.
rsun [4d\]: same reason why europe has mcdonald's but not van der donald's
Insei [-\]: without conting, i see black ahead , is that right ?
liusasori [4d\]: yes
rsun [4d\]: insei is strong
barleya: he let SE do the counting
EGC2015b [-\]: this stone giving is stupid
flobby [-\]: stonk, rsun, stonk
noob1d [5d?\]: b+5.5
storn [3k\]: SE is strong
rsun [4d\]: stone giving accounts for the last dame
storn [3k\]: he thinks so also
pastlink [?\]: w gives a stone ?
rsg [5k\]: What is this stone giving?
Intet [2d\]: its for the 7,5 komi less 1 stone its 6,5
a2g [4k\]: ptos do that
EGC2015b [-\]: yeah w gives a stone
mnbvcx: ;fkm? cfif ghjbuhfk
pastlink [?\]: but komi is 6.5 or 7.5 ?
EGC2015b [-\]: b win
mnbvcx: жаль, Саша проиграл
storn [3k\]: увы.
isumi43 [5k\]: Thx Euro
storn [3k\]: отнюдь
hgffdx: thx EGC
memo [2d\]: how w feels?
Intet [2d\]: because w have to play the same number of moove than black
mnbvcx: но все же он себе жинал обеспечил
storn [3k\]: жинал...
rsg [5k\]: B is lisy?
storn [3k\]: да, он уже лет десять, как жинал
Intet [2d\]: y
EGC2015b [-\]: im leaving, cya
storn [3k\]: thank you
Grunman [8k\]: thanks
EGC2015b [-\]: thx for watching
fujiyama [8k\]: thanks
Durikun [7k\]: ty
a2g [4k\]: what is жинал?
dfyz2006 [10k\]: ох
fujiyama [8k\]: what time for this game?
mnbvcx: жаль проиграл, потому, что может занять 8 место и встретися с Ильей в четверть финале
rsg [5k\]: B is lisy?
rsg [5k\]: Or Alex?
Yohohoho [4k\]: Lisy
rsg [5k\]: Cool
EGC2015c [-\]: Lisy won by 5,5 points
])
