(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
GN[European Go Championships, Finals]PW[Fan Hui]PB[Lisy Pavol]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2013-08-10]EV[57th European Go Congress]RO[10]PC[Olsztyn, Poland]C[hvk [-\]: hi
EGC2013a [?\]: hi :)
]
;B[pq]
;W[dp]
;B[qd]
;W[dc]C[TurtleDove [4k?\]: ooh and aah, the final
]
;B[oc]
;W[po]
(;B[pk]
;W[mp]
;B[oo]
;W[on]
;B[no]
;W[qq]C[Icare [1k\]: they play fast :)
])
(;B[pl]
;W[mp]
;B[oo]
;W[on]
;B[no]
;W[qq]C[tuquedenne [4d\]: ...
JonSnow [4d\]: j'espere qu'ils se sont pas planté de joueurs
tuquedenne [4d\]: mistake at move 7, looks like they gave us the wrong scribe again
goboard [3k\]: final game starts at 10. EGC is trollingaround :P
EGC2013a [?\]: sorry misclick
JonSnow [4d\]: :)
tuquedenne [4d\]: are you sure the game is the right one EGC?
]
;B[pp]C[Shunsun [8k\]: soyez indulgent :)
]
;W[qp]C[yuuki [1k\]: Be kind :)
]
;B[pn]
;W[qo]
;B[nn]C[Idn [3d\]: les français ...
tuquedenne [4d\]: ah ouais évidemment c'est français d'attendre des scribes compétents
Shunsun [8k\]: c'est pas vraiment joseki ça non ? 
Icare [1k\]: you are right Idn we are indécrottables raleurs
tuquedenne [4d\]: les italiens ils s'en fichent complètement par exemple
dxxd [1d\]: what is this variation about
tuquedenne [4d\]: c'est moderne, Shunsun
Idn [3d\]: même de bon matin, vous ne fites que raler : /
Idn [3d\]: faites
HisokaH [-\]: tu peux dire "on" juju :p
Shunsun [8k\]: ca fait un moment que je joue plus, je connais pas les joseki à la mode
]
;W[pr]
;B[or]C[Idn [3d\]: je suis auvergnat, pas français ;)
Sedol87: This is the EGC 2013 final!
HisokaH [-\]: ooooh ;)
tuquedenne [4d\]: je ne fais pas que râler, il m'arrive même de commenter les parties, mais l'erreur au coup 7 ça dénote le scribe qui sait pas vraiment jouer...
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: idn le roi du kobayashi ☺
Koffein [-\]: p4 p3 o4 r2 s2 q1 n2 etc joseki
Turnipsi [1d\]: hooray good luck for both and thx for broadcasting these during the past two weeks
Shunsun [8k\]: tuquedenne, tu peux commenter des parties en râlant ça n'empêche pas :)
Krapsman [2k\]: anyway even if Fan lose this game he wins the tournament isn't it?
tuquedenne [4d\]: no
tuquedenne [4d\]: it's knockout
tuquedenne [4d\]: he will win the Open but will not be european champion :)
Muttley [2k\]: 8 qualifiers to KO stage
Krapsman [2k\]: how come, he is the only one who won the 9 games
AndEdhel [2d?\]: fan is white?
Muttley [2k\]: KO is for title
Gardan [?\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC-finals.html
Krapsman [2k\]: pfiuu really tough tournament!
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: fan is white yes
]
;W[op]
;B[oq]
;W[np]C[AndEdhel [2d?\]: thx
]
;B[qr]
;W[rr]C[Koffein [-\]: muttley, KO is a very confusing kibitz term
]
;B[ps]C[Muttley [2k\]: hehehe Knock Out, sorry
Muttley [2k\]: you are absolutely right :)
]
;W[rm]C[yuuki [1k\]: We do expect a massive ko for title though, don't we ?
tuquedenne [4d\]: it would be fun to see Fan open champion but not european champion although he's european :)
tuquedenne [4d\]: wasn't n2 the normal move in the joseki ?
Icare [1k\]: come on players, ate least do as if you were thinking... it is the final, do not play so fast :)
Muttley [2k\]: at which point, tuq?
]
;B[om]C[tuquedenne [4d\]: instead of s7, Muttley
Muttley [2k\]: thanks
Zaagmans [3d\]: I agree, tuq
tuquedenne [4d\]: all the credit is for Koffein ;)
JEGO [8k\]: s10?
Zaagmans [3d\]: maybe B couldve played sth like M3 instead of the ponnuki? Or is that crazy?
Koffein [-\]: usually white plays n2 before s7, but it's just move reversion to the same joseki
sagesse [-\]: n2 s1 t2 o2 
tuquedenne [4d\]: thx:)
Zaagmans [3d\]: changing the order gives B an alternative though
Koffein [-\]: n2 s1 t2 o2 can be expected
]
;W[mr]
;B[rs]C[Muttley [2k\]: this does look like a fan-style resul
Muttley [2k\]: result
PRosen [2d\]: yep
Muttley [2k\]: b might have thickness, but w is outside and has something in the corner
holynec [-\]: Lisy won yesterday with the trick move? :i
Zaagmans [3d\]: I read that pros usually think that this joseki is good for W
JEGO [8k\]: dead?
Zaagmans [3d\]: in a Go World of last year
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: no dead jego you have 02 and 01 and eye in p1
Koffein [-\]: well, white has nothing to complain, he lives inside black's corner and has a strong group on the outside
Krapsman [2k\]: what trick move?
Zaagmans [3d\]: although nowadays, S7 is sometimes at R7
]
;W[sr]
;B[nr]C[ftroiset [1k?\]: not dead, of course, else not joseki
Koffein [-\]: m5 l4 m3 are all sente
LupusEst [2k\]: o1 
JEGO [8k\]: o1
Fifouu [2d\]: ...
Metonymous [2d?\]: lol
JEGO [8k\]: A 8k move ^^
sagesse [-\]: l4 
Idn [3d\]: o1 doesn't work
AndEdhel [2d?\]: m3
Staubkind [5k\]: o1 dont work..
Koffein [-\]: o1 is too greedy, o1 n3 - white cannot kill
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: 01 n3 jego ? 
holynec [-\]: m3
HisokaH [-\]: don't forget to think a little bit before telling something :)
Krapsman [2k\]: o1 n3 
sagesse [-\]: l4 is shape
rollstory [2k\]: why o1 doesn´t work?
LupusEst [2k\]: o1 n3 m3 o3 l2 m4 n5 ?
]
;W[lq]C[holynec [-\]: thx
Krapsman [2k\]: wow m3 looks concentrated
holynec [-\]: it is the shape move
]
;B[ns]C[Zaagmans [3d\]: still, if B can block at S8, the result might be ok? Hm, still don;'t like it, W is much faster, B only right side
karabos [1d?\]: m3 funny
Muttley [2k\]: shapey
Koffein [-\]: s8 is a very big move btw :)
Muttley [2k\]: nonetheless, w is low and black's stones are efficient
holynec [-\]: why not r9 ^^
Muttley [2k\]: the shimari should work well with the thickness imho
Koffein [-\]: r9 s8 r8 s6 r6 r7 aji
tuquedenne [4d\]: r9 leaves a ko
holynec [-\]: i guess the ko is bad aji 
Shunsun [8k\]: I can't say I like white...
holynec [-\]: <-- ddk
tuquedenne [4d\]: ok i won't make any clever comment if Koffein shows a sequence explaining it faster
JEGO [8k\]: good ko now for white
Hobbes [2k\]: to.me.it's.atrange.that.this.joseki.is.regarded.as.preferable.for.w...
holynec [-\]: i think words are better than sequences :-\]
]
;W[ql]C[evave [5k\]: l5 
PRosen [2d\]: how.do.you.write.Hobbes.?
zaphodb [1d\]: bad keymap
Hobbes [2k\]: it's.a.long.story...
]
;B[qk]C[LAhvac [-\]: entertain us
Hobbes [2k\]: of.laziness.basically...:-)
]
;W[pk]C[grandaure [5k\]: use of spacebar not allowed by your government ?
Zaagmans [3d\]: there we go!
Minjhou [9k\]: you    also    have    the    tab    key    Hobbes
bikle [5k\]: What are the genders of these players, are Fan Hui and Lisy Pavol both male ?
grandaure [5k\]: yes
Muttley [2k\]: go wash your hands, Minjhou, that's terrible
Zaagmans [3d\]: too bad no females im top group... Where were svetlana and koszegi?
megaschaf [1k\]: is this the final ?
Muttley [2k\]: yes
banedon [2k\]: tab key does not work on KGS
grandaure [5k\]: yes
JEGO [8k\]: black r10 now
PRosen [2d\]: yep
Zaagmans [3d\]: and guo
Actorios [1k\]: semi final
Actorios [1k\]: ?
JonSnow [4d\]: final
t101jv [14k\]: dvorak.perhaps?
PRosen [2d\]: guo doesn't play
Rackam [2d\]: i was found of kang
Muttley [2k\]: isn't kang back in korea?
tuquedenne [4d\]: I can't see any female player before the 64th of the tournament
Koffein [-\]: looks like another "won't reach yose" game
Zaagmans [3d\]: Guo played in Amsterdam for Iwamoto memorial last year, but lost to Artem
TurtleDove [4k?\]: she has a KGS account
tuquedenne [4d\]: but maybe I'm wrong with some chinese or korean names
Muttley [2k\]: Koffein, "Lisy" is a clue to that
]
;B[ok]
;W[pj]
;B[qj]C[Zaagmans [3d\]: atari to cutting stone? Hmm...
SNES [1d\]: huh, haven't they played already?
grandaure [5k\]: yes
ftroiset [1k?\]: a little oberplay, that cut?
Muttley [2k\]: try capturing the stones
ftroiset [1k?\]: the atari was necessary
Zaagmans [3d\]: dunno, B in trouble now?
Anivia [6k?\]: they are playing the third time in two weeks
sylvain [2d?\]: Yue LI is 25th.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, if b is going to win, this doesnt look like a bad plan for it, considering what happen in fan hui vs roln weekend tournament game
sagesse [-\]: r11 ?
Koffein [-\]: if b skips p9, w will paly there - and black's center group lacks eyeshape
Koffein [-\]: play*
LAhvac [-\]: Ootakamoku: what happened in that game?
Muttley [2k\]: true, but that was a shorter time limit
Muttley [2k\]: hacked fan apart in time pressure
Ootakamoku [2d\]: lhav, roln won, after fan hui deviated from a joseki
Zaagmans [3d\]: Koffein, true, but this looks painful too...
Muttley [2k\]: ahhhh, miso soup :)
tepid [-\]: looks good for w imo
JEGO [8k\]: who is lisy pavol ?
megaschaf [1k\]: cheater
grandaure [5k\]: a go player
JEGO [8k\]: thanks for this answer
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: slovak young player
JEGO [8k\]: ok
JEGO [8k\]: how old he is?
TurtleDove [4k?\]: how old is Fan Hui ?
]
;W[pi]C[grandaure [5k\]: fan hui 32 i think
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: pavol 18 years old ?
TurtleDove [4k?\]: ok, thx
JEGO [8k\]: r11 b now
Muttley [2k\]: Fan Hui is in his thirties, yeah
Koffein [-\]: btw, i have only 1 game in my database with m3 (yi setol) .. and black exchanged s8 r8 r7 s6 before o1 - r9 q10 afterwards
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I so think age for go players should be measured as time since learning the rules
bibifoc50 [1d?\]: fan is born in 1981
ajka [-\]: second board just started ^^ 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, which kinda guarantees its an overplay
Actorios [1k\]: No EuroGoTV for the final?
Zaagmans [3d\]: m3 was played more, I remember a game between Yamashita and Lee Changho with M3, from some 5 years ago
Liso66 [?\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
]
;B[rh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: only played once, and by lee sdol = analyzed after the game, and agreed by conceus that it was overplay.
Actorios [1k\]: Thanks Liso66
StuUngar [1d\]: a french will be champ of egc
tuquedenne [4d\]: a french will be open champ of egc, that's all we know for now :)
blurb1: there are 2 possible outcomes still
StuUngar [1d\]: is the final best of 3?
StuUngar [1d\]: or juste 1 game
blurb1: and i guess debarre was sure to win at some point xD
grandaure [5k\]: 1 game
Zaagmans [3d\]: m3 overplay? don't get it, or do you mean a different order or something?
Koffein [-\]: o11 now?
DavidZ [9k\]: Hui is as French as it gets
ajka [-\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC-finals.html
holynec [-\]: so what's the story behind Hui?
TurtleDove [4k?\]: Louis more French :)
holynec [-\]: French citizen who went to Korea to study?
JEGO [8k\]: yes
Koffein [-\]: no, chinese who moved to europe
JonSnow [4d\]: chinese pro who became french
kmr [1d\]: nope i think the other direction :)
holynec [-\]: :O
grandaure [5k\]: no, chines pro who went in France
holynec [-\]: but he is very French now? :p
grandaure [5k\]: yes
holynec [-\]: the assimilation went ok
JEGO [8k\]: we are waiting for a french pro who study in French :)
fkgplloyl: Shum Ting Wong
ftroiset [1k?\]: actually, he was in France for 12 years, but became French only this spring
Rackam [2d\]: he does not drink wine
Zaagmans [3d\]: haha
tuquedenne [4d\]: what means "very french"... he got the french nationality so he's french, that's all
gruenwald [2d\]: I hope for Lisy win
Zaagmans [3d\]: but about m3, you don;t mean this: http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/25037?
StuUngar [1d\]: fan doesn t lose any game, he will won
StuUngar [1d\]: +s
Anivia [6k?\]: wasnt born in France, wasnt raised there, didnt learn go there. So what is French about him besides his passport? 
holynec [-\]: He's lived there for 12 years and has nationality now ^^
kelemenz [2k\]: a move around H3 is urgent
HisokaH [-\]: Can we focus on the game please :)
sylvain [2d?\]: his language
blurb1: if he was good in soccer he would be french in 1 hour, so i guess after 5 years it can be accepted in go^^
rouq [3k?\]: Now that he's french, he can loose in final
BigDoug [-\]: please keep the comments only about the game
bolbi [-\]: thax
goboard [3k\]: german footbal national team is german as much as fan hui is french so just leave it....
Zaagmans [3d\]: I played H3 once, and the invasion of k3 was terrible... I'd play J3 next time
kmr [1d\]: M3 group has bad shape and its not strong for sure
Koffein [-\]: j3 doesn't really attack white
Zaagmans [3d\]: I mean for W
holynec [-\]: Is Catalin playing in this tourney?
Icare [1k\]: forcing 08 then O11 ?
kmr [1d\]: white must do sth with it
Zaagmans [3d\]: for B, K3 is surely the move
grandaure [5k\]: no, catalin not playing
bolbi [-\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html
Koffein [-\]: k3 puts a lot more pressure on w (much harder to make eyeshape)
TurtleDove [4k?\]: W needs another play to support m3 otherwise he could end up running like yesterday
kelemenz [2k\]: which is better for white:H3 or F6
Ootakamoku [2d\]: h3 looks wrong, two equal size gaps
StuUngar [1d\]: f6 no sense
Zaagmans [3d\]: or for B actually L4
grandaure [5k\]: f6 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: for w I would go j4 maybe
Hobbes [2k\]: m6.for.w?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o10 first maybe, so w can play s11 later
kmr [1d\]: opening seems good for black white has 2 weak groups
Koffein [-\]: l4 .. hmm .. this game doesn't look like anyone can expect much in the center
pojki [5d\]: w needs to do something with the three stones and aim at r15 later
Idn [3d\]: r12 
apple2 [2k\]: tenuki no option imho
]
;W[ni]C[Blair [4k\]: who's w ?
IkkiRyu [8k\]: fan hui
EGC2013a [?\]: w is Fan Hui
Ootakamoku [2d\]: any chance b will not fix s11 weakness?
Blair [4k\]: thx
kelemenz [2k\]: do not expect teh exact move from a 2k, i try to get the directin of play
Koffein [-\]: o10 is the usual keypoint here, but black is running behind white .. so, maybe n10 ?
]
;B[mk]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: w s11 pretty please
Metonymous [2d?\]: did you really mean f6, though/
Metonymous [2d?\]: ?*
Ootakamoku [2d\]: oh, cant
Icare [1k\]: why not forcing 08 first ?
Icare [1k\]: before O11
Zaagmans [3d\]: s11 doesnt work, right
strange123: what
Ootakamoku [2d\]: zaagmans, it would if w had played o10 instead of o11 >.<
strange123: finals?!?
Zaagmans [3d\]: yes
strange123: and no one told me by mail
Zaagmans [3d\]: I know ^^
grandaure [5k\]: yes, final
strange123: why kgs do not send SMS FOR ME?
strange123: poor system
Koffein [-\]: s11 .. s11 r11 r12 s10 s13 t11 r13 s8 r7 t8 is sente against the lower right ..
strange123: ok thanks all
Zaagmans [3d\]: b had good eye shape in the centre now, but weak on right side... W has two 'problems' it seems
strange123: good finals :)
strange123: i vote for M11
holynec [-\]: is this standard joseki?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, didnt notice that, thx
holynec [-\]: i havent been able to keep up with modern joseki :/
]
;W[li]C[kelemenz [2k\]: M11 an easy play for kyu players
strange123: yes
Thoravatar [4d\]: poor system indeed: no blitz/lightning ratings, no tournament organisation, no guess the next move functionality, no variants rules, etc
evave [5k\]: k3 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b would very much like to jump once more before going k3, but I dont think k3 will be there anymore after a b jump
tuquedenne [4d\]: l9 looks obvious
Staubkind [5k\]: "no guess the next move functionality" - what? :D
holynec [-\]: l9
strange123: i think wms should sell kgs , if he keeps with that for himself, ofc he don't want to improve kgs... just sell it for alot and then we will have a system better than tygem
JEGO [8k\]: so l6 jump
tuquedenne [4d\]: aiming at k3 or k11
Koffein [-\]: k3 is a bit too early, there are already enough weak groups on the board
megaschaf [1k\]: looks good for white
holynec [-\]: i agree with tuque
zyklop [1k\]: b seems behind
BigDoug [-\]: strange, please keep your comments only about this game
Ootakamoku [2d\]: tuq, k11 is big in principle, but not sure it justifies w getting bottom and w still has r12 to easily settle m11, and it leaves weakneses too
strange123: ok sorry
sheeryjay [?\]: Selling is not an option, when you are a programmer you become attached to your brain child.
sung [7k\]: d15
Thoravatar [4d\]: /bet 150 L9
karabos [1d?\]: black d15 now?
]
;B[jp]C[IkkiRyu [8k\]: well thor
Ootakamoku [2d\]: the p9 actually has reasonable eyeshape already, so I think just attack directly
holynec [-\]: hmm
Koffein [-\]: well :)
evave [5k\]: close
IkkiRyu [8k\]: gimme your money
BigDoug [-\]: thoravatar, please keep your comments only about this game
Ootakamoku [2d\]: meh, I was too late
royu [5d\]: i am sad s6 doesn't work at all 
Zaagmans [3d\]: original move, nice idea
sung [7k\]: better idea :D
Thoravatar [4d\]: ?
strange123: k4 its fun move
kmr [1d\]: i was just about to say black will hasami on bottom
Metonymous [2d?\]: his comment was about the game....
holynec [-\]: Oh, we were guessing for Lisy, not Fan. Fan would've L9'ed ;p
Thoravatar [4d\]: that was about the game bigdoug
zyklop [1k\]: not better k3 instead of k4?
grandaure [5k\]: m6 ?
evave [5k\]: m6 ?
strange123: k3 and you can't make it work with centre stones zyk
Ootakamoku [2d\]: k3 is less flexible than k4
karabos [1d?\]: k4 shows muscles :)
ftroiset [1k?\]: M6 is normal move now
JEGO [8k\]: m6 yes
sung [7k\]: k2 i think
tuquedenne [4d\]: @BigDoug : is a comment like "I'm on a phone and I can't see player names, why is that ?" about the game or not ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: m6 is the I want to die now move
Koffein [-\]: l5 ?
holynec [-\]: the people can't see players' name ^^
evave [5k\]: lol
grandaure [5k\]: on cell phones, no
evave [5k\]: kgs client sucks on cells
Defense7 [3d\]: how about L5
Ootakamoku [2d\]: as white I think I would actually want to play k3 here, and crosscut if b hanes
BigDoug [-\]: I'm going to start booting for comments which I deem to be unrelated to the game
tuquedenne [4d\]: should be a better shape than m6
evave [5k\]: k3  for w then ?
evave [5k\]: l5 better
Thumb [3d\]: L5 seems the maximum resistance. Complicates the position, so Fan should play it
Koffein [-\]: k3 j3 j4 l3 k2 k5 looks too good for b
weiqidevil [-\]: how about a pincer before moving out?
strange123: l5 ?
strange123: seems natural move
zyklop [1k\]: k4 seems to give good shape for w too easily
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, again ur right >.<
Koffein [-\]: not sure
ftroiset [1k?\]: M6 prepares for n7, which L5 dont 
Zaagmans [3d\]: going back, I think with white J3 instead of R8, he would have had a speedy opening
Koffein [-\]: k3 j3 j4 l3 l4 k2 k5 could be interesting :)
kelemenz [2k\]: Lisy is a great talent, in March he   won the youth EGC 16-20 section so around 20years old.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, just saying I agree with you, and was careless in my reading not taking that variation into account
strange123: L5 makes b looks ugly
bensenseii [-\]: Pavol is 18, kelemenz
kelemenz [2k\]: thx
]
;W[ko]C[Koffein [-\]:  i guess l9 now
strange123: f3 imo
Koffein [-\]: k4 already made it painful enough for white to live with this group
Thumb [3d\]: L9 K5 K11?
royu [5d\]: l4 push makes sense for shape
sagesse [-\]: maybe k5 first?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: l9 k5 h4 more like
strange123: forcing k11 si not good, tenuki, center is alive, f3 is anuf
Koffein [-\]: for shape, but you make k4 heavy
royu [5d\]: wouldn't be heavier than it is now 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: if we tenuki w k4 the whole exchange will look ridiculous
Ootakamoku [2d\]: er.. w k5
Zaagmans [3d\]: K5?
Thoravatar [4d\]: black is allready alive right? So if white L9 black can tenuki
Defense7 [3d\]: it seems white has already garnered a slight lead
Koffein [-\]: black is not 100% alive in the center
kelemenz [2k\]: i broadcasted some  ofhif games in March on KGS, and was impressed by  his play
Thoravatar [4d\]: koffein, sequence?
Koffein [-\]: o8 
tuquedenne [4d\]: maybe black can play k5 just before l9
royu [5d\]: q7 must be responded to or w LR group dies... so b is alive
Koffein [-\]: atleast if black wants to avoid painful ajikeshi like r6 r7 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b j6?
zyklop [1k\]: i d like to see b s6 but i don´t see proper ko-threats
royu [5d\]: q7 (w elsewhere) s6 r6 s8 s5 s4 t4 s3 t5 ko
Zaagmans [3d\]: just k5 here i think, then b f3
Thoravatar [4d\]: but maybe the aji kesji of P10 p11 is ok
gruenwald [2d\]: l7?
strange123: i think b should play a nonsense move, 
strange123: like K11
strange123: for split all directions
holynec [-\]: well i think k4 is a mistake
holynec [-\]: make strong groups before attacking
kelemenz [2k\]: Fan Hui is around 40-45 i guess, which is also       agreaat achievement from the wievpointof sports
Ootakamoku [2d\]: j6 to keep the position flexible, and not hurt o5 too much?
grandaure [5k\]: 40-45 what ?
klausP [7d?\]: black center can live fast if ever needed
Metonymous [2d?\]: if you're talking about his age, kelemen, he's quite a bit younger
holynec [-\]: yeah, but in gote
Metonymous [2d?\]: early 30s?
royu [5d\]: l4 m5 g3 is not too awful, as L2 is a good move for b 
kelemenz [2k\]: years old
Liso66 [?\]: one camera could be in horizontal view for final...
Metonymous [2d?\]: certainly not 40
tuquedenne [4d\]: poor fan :)
grandaure [5k\]: fan hui was born in 1981
Koffein [-\]: it's not just a question of life and death, but you don't want to give white sente moves like l9 
derpanzer [4k?\]: Fan is 32
tuquedenne [4d\]: @Liso66 : if you recognize the hand of your son then it's enough :D
pojki [5d\]: k5 first then jump makes sense
Liso66 [?\]: :D 
TurtleDove [4k?\]: when W lives, B will have just 2 points in one of his initial corners so W must be happy
Thoravatar [4d\]: so you should exchange P10 P11 now, if you don't want L9 to be sente
holynec [-\]: if you notice, this will probably encapsulate black
Thoravatar [4d\]: that's expensive
Thoravatar [4d\]: ah doesn't even work, nm
royu [5d\]: b doesn't need to respond to l9... q7 is b's sente (flower ko) to kill LR?
]
;B[kk]C[Thoravatar [4d\]: so BL9
royu [5d\]: if b play's l9 first, it's a splitting attack 
]
;W[jo]C[Koffein [-\]: k11 is shining
holynec [-\]: so
]
;B[mh]C[holynec [-\]: Is the k4/L5 exchange good for b? don't think so
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b trying to make k11 sente with this peep?
Koffein [-\]: it's good if black gets sente during the center fight
holynec [-\]: compare it with just playing L9 directly ^^
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: what is the interest of N12?
Koffein [-\]: after k4 l5 white couldn't take the lower side with just 1 more move
strange123: really b must play really well on that game, it's not going so well for him 
AndEdhel [2d?\]: after n11, w can o8?
grandaure [5k\]: n12 n11 W heavy ?
holynec [-\]: that may be so, but that could turn into 5th line territory
tuquedenne [4d\]: it's harder  for white to play k12 after w k11, CoffeeTime
royu [5d\]: unsure of the risk involve in this move... if w o10, s11 or r12 gains strength... b's attacks to LR also lose power?
Thoravatar [4d\]: strange, you prefer white here?
HisokaH [-\]: yes
Koffein [-\]: bum, any comments? ^^
Thumb [3d\]: Another (silly) idea : after N12 N11, W is more compelled to answer P10 at P11 (rather than at R12)
evave [5k\]: b giving too much away ?
strange123: i prefer w yea
AndEdhel [2d?\]: n11 k11 o8
tuquedenne [4d\]: BUM is lazy & sleepy
strange123: bum let the others win that tournament :)
dutch2dan [2d\]: smartrobot, any comments?
kelemenz [2k\]: For interestedplayers, from EGD ifound that Hui Fan played    as Chinese 3p in 2001 january, and as French 7d in 2001 February (Fan  is family name)
tuquedenne [4d\]: 3p was a mistake
]
;W[nl]C[evave [5k\]: ?? ^^
grandaure [5k\]: anyway no pro system in europe
Poney [1d\]: Counter peeping
Minjhou [9k\]: oh yeah
Defense7 [3d\]: so stong
AndEdhel [2d?\]: he was 2p but listed 3p on one tournament. but he reached equivalent (so unnoficial, but based on results) of 5 or 6p with his egd rating, due to numerous victories
]
;B[ol]C[evave [5k\]: i dont think it works
]
;W[nj]C[royu [5d\]: yeah, b messed up...
strange123: that was expensive
holynec [-\]: beautiful
Koffein [-\]: suddenly n12 is at an awkward spot
JEGO [8k\]: so a forced move
pojki [5d\]: b is losing it but still not so tragic
royu [5d\]: n12 big mistake
Thoravatar [4d\]: why not bO9 before?
holynec [-\]: read :[\]
Thoravatar [4d\]: thx
Thoravatar [4d\]: great idea
]
;B[nk]C[AndEdhel [2d?\]: otherwise w could p8 and separate
]
;W[lj]C[JEGO [8k\]: bamboo nodes
royu [5d\]: now w gets r12 or something
evave [5k\]: k11 ?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: w gets k11?
TurtleDove [4k?\]: heh, the bamboo crop growing nicely
strange123: k8 right^
Nande [2d\]: It is weird that (if) a pro is european amateur champion ...
kelemenz [2k\]: Lisy wil not be 3p at 19 years. Some Koreeans wanted to establish a European Pro League last year (bassed in Budapest)     but they returned emptyy handed
Koffein [-\]: what's even worse is - white might get sente to capture k4 
strange123: i was worried about that, but its normal
royu [5d\]: why did they turn up empty handed?
evave [5k\]: b k11
backpack1 [2d\]: there is a chinese plan to create a european pro system : starting next year ^^
AndEdhel [2d?\]: kelemenz: why empty handed?
kmr [1d\]: capturing k4 in got would be sign that white feels very good
Shadowman [2d\]: white already seemed superior to me
backpack1 [2d\]: an*
tuquedenne [4d\]: like yesterday, Pavol starts with a very bad position :)
kmr [1d\]: in gote*
tuquedenne [4d\]: but it's not sure the follow-up will be the same :)
Tmuch4me [?\]: a chinise pro as eur ama champ...
Shadowman [2d\]: after this, he seems to have a sizeable advantage
kelemenz [2k\]: bexause lack of interest and no sponsors
JEGO [8k\]: problem is k4 alone stone for black now
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b l7 looks quite natural here but it doesnt support attack on the m11 group properly
tuquedenne [4d\]: who says it's eur ama champ ? Catalin used to be the champ
tuquedenne [4d\]: it's euro champ, not euro ama champ
royu [5d\]: going back to k4, I feel b r13 makes a lot more sense
Ootakamoku [2d\]: so I would choose the bad k8 shape here, since the l7 peep worth less than proper attack on m11, or sente
pojki [5d\]: maybye black can k11 now
Backflash [6k?\]: its not even a champ
Backflash [6k?\]: technicaly
strange123: l7  imo
strange123: safe
royu [5d\]: if you protect s11 attack,s then b q7 has power = middle group doesn't need extra protection
Koffein [-\]: k11 is so thin
Backflash [6k?\]: we just assume that who wins congress is euro champ
pojki [5d\]: as the group is quite alive, k11 is only hope to get some usable result
Thoravatar [4d\]: so why did black play P8?
royu [5d\]: and you can either expand top naturally or attack at k4 area after
strange123: yes why p8?
JEGO [8k\]: f3 now ?
strange123: k11 to risky against a pro
Ootakamoku [2d\]: err.. cmon, k11, that cant be reasonable, no matter how you look at it :P, if you consider b alive, then just play h4
]
;B[jm]C[Backflash [6k?\]: id like to see h4 for w =\\
strange123: w can L13 now
strange123: and lead big
Koffein [-\]: o8 o9 n11 k11 p8 q7 n7 n8 o7 m7 n6 n5 m6 m5 l6 m4 l4 n3 k10 and b collapses
Weishenme [4d\]: s11 now ?
Shadowman [2d\]: personally I would j4, and see what black has in store
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I think w will add a honte here, j4 of h4
strange123: what's wrong with l13?
royu [5d\]: b needed r13 earlier this entire game imo... w r12? 
Shadowman [2d\]: better to have one weak group ande one settled with points, rather than 2 floating groups
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r13 only a few points now that w gropu has miai with center
Weishenme [4d\]: H4 is logical here , no risk on O11 group , so good to prevent w H4
kelemenz [2k\]: Once I   wanted to includeDiana Kőszegi into Hungarianteam. She anwered that in Korea professional are prohibited from playing in amateur levels (she   was an insei then) As I heard she was inOLsytyn but only as a visiting professional
Koffein [-\]: oh, b could capture? o8 o9 n11 k11 p8 q7 n7 n8 o7 m6 .. hmm
grandaure [5k\]: usually, w likes territorry and plays solid moves, i bet for j4
susuvaj [1d\]: k11 is inevitable
Weishenme [4d\]: to prevent b H4 I mean
strange123: ok i would get h4 too
strange123: solid cash
Thumb [3d\]: H4 maybe
]
;W[qh]C[kelemenz [2k\]: susuvaj, te mikor szoktál játszani a KGs-en?
strange123: w is thinking on h4 for sure
Weishenme [4d\]: ritkàn
strange123: to play such a r12
backpack1 [2d\]: b lost the momentum by playing n12 :/
strange123: come on b take h6
kelemenz [2k\]: engem ő beszéltrá hogy újra gózzak, miközben ő abbahagyta
JEGO [8k\]: r13 b now?
strange123: r12 was big and gotish
strange123: i expect tenuki now
backpack1 [2d\]: tenuki ? r u crazy ? ^^
strange123: lol
Koffein [-\]: r13 s13 might cause some problems for black
]
;B[qi]C[royu [5d\]: b should have r13 instead of k4 (yes, I''m a broken record :))
Backflash [6k?\]: hm not s11
kelemenz [2k\]: black has to find a clever play tosacrifice the right side
pojki [5d\]: b aiming at r7
Thumb [3d\]: S13
ftroiset [1k?\]: what?? Double hane
strange123: what was that!?
strange123: wow
]
;W[rg]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: s13 r13 q12 s10 
JEGO [8k\]: hey
EdhelDil [3k\]: pojki: why would b r7?
strange123: hi jego
Thumb [3d\]: Shicho works too
largehc [-\]: r7 would be dumb 
WVoron [5d\]: really?
Shadowman [2d\]: that's one kick-ass ladder you are seeing
kelemenz [2k\]: black takes S13
strange123: hey shadow mind words :D
Koffein [-\]: it's so apinful to lose cutting stones ..
EdhelDil [3k\]: q10 getting captured, so q10 can live quickly and not give any sente moves (k11...) to b?
manofearth [?\]: maybe we shld have our prices of admission  4this game rrefunded
Koffein [-\]: painful*
tuquedenne [4d\]: it's apinful, too
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r13 q12 s10 r14 s8 r7 t9 t4 q13 if w persists
PRosen [2d\]: fan power
]
;B[qg]
;W[ph]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: so becomes a huge ko instead
susuvaj [1d\]: Szia Zoli! Hétvégén és éjszaka szoktam játszani.
pojki [5d\]: r7 s8 s6 r6 s5 s4 t4 s3 t5  but it would be a bad ko
Ootakamoku [2d\]: s10 t12 now I guess
strange123: i'm going to make some tea, btw i'm starting to like b
]
;B[rj]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: ootamoku: good call
ftroiset [1k?\]: incredible``
momiji [3d\]: Lordy Lordy
klausP [7d?\]: seems like Fan is still way aboth the rest
ftroiset [1k?\]: dangerous ko
klausP [7d?\]: whats blacks plan after t12?
Defense7 [3d\]: feels like b has something up his sleeve
backpack1 [2d\]: hmm mateusz was very close to beating Fan ^^
Thumb [3d\]: The exchange side vs corner would be good for W 
momiji [3d\]: w going for the k.o.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: klaus, ko and use m9 as threat :)
kelemenz [2k\]: black is behind so looksforcomplications
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b j4 also threat
klausP [7d?\]: m9 as threat for black??
Koffein [-\]: taka, that's _white's_ plan
klausP [7d?\]: lol
ftroiset [1k?\]: this kodoesn't look promising
manofearth [?\]: but he's only shown himself above  a sloppy Pavol this game
JEGO [8k\]: r11 was not a a  good idea so fan now s14 move
klausP [7d?\]: problem is, I dont see a black plan working here
klausP [7d?\]: Ko is not so helpfull
HisokaH [-\]: well, he can live with 2 points :p
Koffein [-\]: and black has no time to create ko threats elsewhere ..
Thumb [3d\]: T12 anyway 
grandaure [5k\]: is W 100% alive in corner ?
Thoravatar [4d\]: that's his favourite group size :)
Koffein [-\]: l4 is a threat btw
]
;W[qf]C[JEGO [8k\]: yes because clack don't live 
klausP [7d?\]: hm
tuquedenne [4d\]: "chicken!chicken!" "look, I have your leg"
klausP [7d?\]: not t12 is a suprise
Thumb [3d\]: Boohoo. I don't get it
Thumb [3d\]: and that's no surprise
EdhelDil [3k\]: i hope for b that tryng to keep r11 stones is worth something.... 
Koffein [-\]: winner winner chicken dinner?
tepid [-\]: bad start for b
kelemenz [2k\]: now bS8 wR7 bT12 wT14 bT9 lives (?)
royu [5d\]: grandaure, w right now is 100% alive in corner
momiji [3d\]: this game so over
JEGO [8k\]: t12 good idea
mozarto [?\]: pfff
strange123: w+?
grandaure [5k\]: thx royu
strange123: finals = best of 3?
Koffein [-\]: bo1
EdhelDil [3k\]: strange: no, knowk out
EdhelDil [3k\]: knock
grandaure [5k\]: final : this game
strange123: ok ty
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, how about just j5 if you want to play a threat there?
Clade [6k\]: so... s 8 and then t 13 and t 9 for ko?
FuzzFace [1k\]: ko only way ? 
FuzzFace [1k\]: s8 r7 t9 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: interesting dilemma for b
strange123: can b win this game?
Clade [6k\]: if he wins the ko he's ok i think
ThiGar [3k\]: man, s10 is dead!
FuzzFace [1k\]: b drink yesterday ?
JEGO [8k\]: so T12 only move
EdhelDil [3k\]: can s8 threaten w group in corner?
Koffein [-\]: no idea, taka :) just in case white answers the threat - which move has more follow-ups, and/or lose less points?
ftroiset [1k?\]: easy to liv, but
Koffein [-\]: too lazy to think that much, stayed up all night :)
FuzzFace [1k\]: s8 r7 t9 is a ko 
kelemenz [2k\]: Clade black lives without a ko
wolfgang23 [7k?\]: ?bm4
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b could start to play out the ladder, but if he hadds moves the ko becomes heavier
Ootakamoku [2d\]: if he just threattens to live inside, w takes the ponnuki on the outside
Thumb [3d\]: Pfff. "koffein" this, "koffein" that... it's pretty hard on us addicts I'll have you know. 'll be right back.
strange123: hahaha
manofearth [?\]: is this really the final?  Euro2013, BigDoug, Tuquedenne
tuquedenne [4d\]: the final is not between BigDoug and me
Ootakamoku [2d\]: yes this is final, and only 1 game
grandaure [5k\]: yes, it is !
tuquedenne [4d\]: would be a pity for european go
EdhelDil [3k\]: thumb: add 'javaness' to it and you'll sip coffee all day long ^^
manofearth [?\]: TX
FuzzFace [1k\]: maybe b drink a lot yesterday
FuzzFace [1k\]: ...
strange123: man, i should go work
Clade [6k\]: i dont see how black can live though :v
royu [5d\]: it's great to see europe have new talent like mateusz and pavol
Shunsun [8k\]: there is a ko to live...
strange123: send me pm or mail after 100 moves and put in message who is winning ok? thanks
ftroiset [1k?\]: atari, atari
kmr [1d\]: ladder dont work so i am confused.Why white didnt played T12 first?
FuzzFace [1k\]: t13 s14 s8 r7 t9 
ftroiset [1k?\]: no kp
FuzzFace [1k\]: alive without ko
ThiGar [3k\]: Does b have a sente worth more than his tiny group on the side?
FuzzFace [1k\]: but gote
Clade [6k\]: oh i feel silly
Clade [6k\]: thanks Fuzz xD
EdhelDil [3k\]: thigar: his group on the side would also make w live in middle, so it's huge
grandaure [5k\]: yes royu, lot of new strong teens players. debarre also is 19 yrs old.
ftroiset [1k?\]: t13, s18, è9
ftroiset [1k?\]: t13, s8, t9
klausP [7d?\]: how old is Pavol?
grandaure [5k\]: 18
ThiGar [3k\]: ok EdhelDil
Backflash [6k?\]: wait wiat, Debarre 10 yo?
klausP [7d?\]: thx
Backflash [6k?\]: 19*
grandaure [5k\]: debarre 19 yrs old
Backflash [6k?\]: hm, i thought he is much older
manofearth [?\]: kindof 2bad. unless Pavol knows some outofparadigm secret
Backflash [6k?\]: like 25 or 30
grandaure [5k\]: no
royu [5d\]: b really should have played r13 instead of k4 though... 
ftroiset [1k?\]: no, he is the youngest French campion
susuvaj [1d\]: b should resign
FuzzFace [1k\]: to soon to resign
Amoxi: can't be worth living here, can it?
ftroiset [1k?\]: no, go is a marathon
Thumb [3d\]: slurp
isa [3k\]: resign is a sure way to lose
FuzzFace [1k\]: many moove to make
Koffein [-\]: it's a dilemma. giving up cutting stones hurt, but by saving them white becomes alive and the cutting stones useless ..
kelemenz [2k\]: ne légy kegyetlen
Amoxi: ya
FuzzFace [1k\]: but he is in the caca
Amoxi: the living sequence ruins the point of the cutting stones
EdhelDil [3k\]: backflash : and instead of spending  1 or 3 years in korea like some, he is studying (academics) and takes go lessons only a few time a week (with fan and guojuan, and now with some other one i can't remember)... quite a talented guy to become 6d without pending a *lot* of time doing Go
Ootakamoku [2d\]: am I missing something super obvious, what how does it continue if b just plays q13 now?
]
;B[rl]
;W[qm]
;B[sk]C[susuvaj [1d\]: Zoli, ki az a weinheimer?
Rukasu [3k\]: after b q13 w t12?
ftroiset [1k?\]: yes ; is father is a well-known French mathematicians, and he is following his traces...
backpack1 [2d\]: you can study without going to korea /japan ... do tsumego, review your games/progames, play strong opponents in the internet... ^^
EdhelDil [3k\]: t12 t11 q13 
Amoxi: uh, what?
Rukasu [3k\]: koooo
FuzzFace [1k\]: t13 miss
Icare [1k\]: "well-known French  mathematician" funny expression...
FuzzFace [1k\]: !!!
TurtleDove [4k?\]: heh, W has sente, might not bother with ko yet
grandaure [5k\]: no ko i think. q 
susuvaj [1d\]: Weishenme...
FuzzFace [1k\]: d10 now
ftroiset [1k?\]: why funny?
Clade [6k\]: well thats...
Clade [6k\]: odd
klausP [7d?\]: h4 still waiting to
Ootakamoku [2d\]: froiset, remove any one word from the sentence and it makes sense
EdhelDil [3k\]: r4  seeems not 100% alive if w plays elsewhere than t12 ?
klausP [7d?\]: so maybe white can fix r13 with so play agains the corner
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this ko that is comming up looks the size category, whoever takes it first wins it
Icare [1k\]: I am a mathematician myself and I never met a "well known mathematician". Most of them are dead.. 
ftroiset [1k?\]: `ah... Actually, French maths is at the top : look at Fields medals or Abel prizes
ThiGar [3k\]: froiset's is a math riddle
JEGO [8k\]: t12
klausP [7d?\]: are ANNY mathematicians WELL known?
kmr [1d\]: Gerd Falting is well known mathematician and still alive i suppose
Blair [4k\]: hard start for black, don't you think ?
Amoxi: icare, there are plenty of well known mathematicians, not that this is the place for that conversation
Liso66 [?\]: bubaraki is well known :P
tuquedenne [4d\]: @Icare : well-known mathematician = 1er à Ulm ou à l'agreg (pour f***)
ftroiset [1k?\]: Icare ; not really. For mathematicians, most important mathematicians are alive``
Liso66 [?\]: *boubaraki
kmr [1d\]: hehe Bourbaki is some kind of Cheater lol!
EdhelDil [3k\]: klaus: fermat, galois, gauss, etc : hyes, some are well known (if you only went to high school)
doremi [1k\]: Bourbaki
ftroiset [1k?\]: Its Bourbaki, and thois one is a collective name
Koffein [-\]: ed: precondition: "still alive"
Songe [1d?\]: Hrm, can we come back to the game please ?
LAhvac [-\]: actually, there are many Frech mathematicians
hitaus [1k?\]: there are few. Riemann, Bayes and Fermat, for example
ThiGar [3k\]: mubaraki?
Helita [4k\]: why b dont t13 first?
JEGO [8k\]: t12 white
ftroiset [1k?\]: Look instead at Wiles, Perelman, Terence Tao...
Daimadoshi [-\]: Focus on the game please
floating [2k\]: is this game gonna end soon ? 
klausP [7d?\]: Edhel, i studyed mathamatics and I never meet non mathematicians who know mathematicians
ftroiset [1k?\]: t13 loses the aji
klausP [7d?\]: by the way, you missed euklid
ftroiset [1k?\]: euclid is not french
kmr [1d\]: T12 or white is chicken :P
mozarto [?\]: was this ko that important??
LAhvac [-\]: klausP: well, there is one everybody knows... how about Rene Descartes?
josek [2k\]: so the admin is ignored
ftroiset [1k?\]: in that direction, you would have to cite Fermat, Pascal, Descartes...
Rackam [2d\]: i'm not mathematician and i know Pierre Colmez
floating [2k\]: this game ends in less than 100 moves
Defense7 [3d\]: its a little tough for w
TaoToKing [10k\]: Giordano Bruno is the Best :p
Psychopath [-\]: R12 seems like a mistake
Defense7 [3d\]: w almost has to win the ko
klausP [7d?\]: ok, now Fermat IS a well know french mathemathician I agree
kmr [1d\]: this ko seems very good for white dont it?
Thoravatar [4d\]: why?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: problem for w is that he has exacly zero ko threats
Psychopath [-\]: Thoravatar, you like this for Whtie?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: atleast b can threatten to kill l5 or n4
klausP [7d?\]: t12 is not interesting now
mozarto [?\]: i think w won't play the ko now
tuquedenne [4d\]: and all those zero ko threats lies of y=1/2
Koffein [-\]: m9 is big enough to be a threat
tuquedenne [4d\]: on*
mozarto [?\]: there are bigger moves
Thoravatar [4d\]: well a moment ago everbody thought black should resign
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, even if r4 dies from it?
Koffein [-\]: yes
Songe [1d?\]: @Mozarto : my question too, i cant find anything better than White T12, but i feel there are better moves elsewhere too
Ber [1d\]: The white corner is not alive?
klausP [7d?\]: black is still bad here I think
zyklop [1k\]: this ko doesn´t look good for b
Psychopath [-\]: Still bad?
ftroiset [1k?\]: actually,the value of t7 is hard to calculate
josek [2k\]: j4 ish is quite big
Schweiger [1d\]: Wh T7
EdhelDil [3k\]: r5 looks dead if b plays first
kmr [1d\]: R5 is alive
mozarto [?\]: h5, simple and big?
Koffein [-\]: how to kill r5 without ko?
]
;W[sm]C[Psychopath [-\]: That's why White has to come up with something.
Psychopath [-\]: As expected.
ftroiset [1k?\]: t7 kills w, t7 threatens b death, but after t7
Ootakamoku [2d\]: q13?
EdhelDil [3k\]: schweiger: good call (hels white and threaten b)
hikarutoya [7k\]: if white wins the ko, r5 is alive
ftroiset [1k?\]: well he played it ;-)
mozarto [?\]: r5 alive anyway
hikarutoya [7k\]: even if black plays a ko threat i think
isa [3k\]: t11 ?
zyklop [1k\]: w just takes sente, painful for b
EdhelDil [3k\]: t8 t4 t11 q13 
floating [2k\]: he takes sente ? he lives with this move ?
bensenseii [-\]: w doesn't take sente
bensenseii [-\]: b t11
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b q13 to say no to w plan
bensenseii [-\]: And then w q13
Thumb [3d\]: T11 Q13, yes ? The what, C6?
Thumb [3d\]: *n
bensenseii [-\]: Then w is good, it seems
Schweiger [1d\]: bl T11 Wh Q 13
EdhelDil [3k\]: w needs more : otherwise b r6 s6 t5 kills w
Koffein [-\]: black t11 means white can play p14 and squeeze if b runs away with r13
bensenseii [-\]: No Edheldil
floating [2k\]: b should kill either R5 or S13 otherwise w gets too good result ?
bensenseii [-\]: w seems alive with t7
bensenseii [-\]: *-seems +is
Thoravatar [4d\]: if black lives, bs4 is dangerous for white?
pojki [5d\]: yes
bensenseii [-\]: No
ftroiset [1k?\]: still complex : it could be the right timùing to move r13
Schweiger [1d\]: bl q13 wh s 14 and kill or capture ars miai
bensenseii [-\]: s4 s5 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: my reading says t8 liberty keeps w alive
Thumb [3d\]: or H4 as next tenuki for B
FuzzFace [1k\]: s4 s5 
EdhelDil [3k\]: bensensei: how you answer br6?
bensenseii [-\]: r6 s6
tuquedenne [4d\]: come back with cafeine Thumb ?
Koffein [-\]: s4 t5 
Thumb [3d\]: Yup.
EdhelDil [3k\]: r6 s6 t5
ThiGar [3k\]: and also q7 lib
bensenseii [-\]: t4
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but bottom right is a good source of ko threats, hence play q13
bensenseii [-\]: er
bensenseii [-\]: Sorry
bensenseii [-\]: s4*
WiteDragon [4k\]: Is a live stream f this game any where to see?
EdhelDil [3k\]: then s4
floating [2k\]: t11 and then w defends r5 group then b q13 ez
bensenseii [-\]: Not t4
bensenseii [-\]: r6 s6 t5 s4
EdhelDil [3k\]: tt4 s4 miai
bensenseii [-\]: No
Amoxi: ...
ftroiset [1k?\]: t5 is the only hope to kill
Thoravatar [4d\]: s4 t5 depends on the T8 liberty i guess
EGC2013a [?\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
bensenseii [-\]: Edhel, come in my demo
WiteDragon [4k\]: thx ecg
Koffein [-\]: no, it depends on the q7 liberty :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: ahh i see: t3 would then capture!
pojki [5d\]: maybye b should s4 now and then live
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, lol
Thoravatar [4d\]: haha same
JEGO [8k\]: s14 move for blac;?
Thoravatar [4d\]: :)
ftroiset [1k?\]: t5 first
bensenseii [-\]: Yes Edel
bensenseii [-\]: Therefore, w is alive now
EdhelDil [3k\]: sorry, and thanks
Kajiura [6k\]: s4 ko for white
qgo [3k\]: t5 vital point
bensenseii [-\]: np :)
josek [2k\]: afterwards, s4 t4 and how b can kill?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t8 r6 and there wont be ko threats for s10 fight, hence its no go
ftroiset [1k?\]: how do you answer t5
KiraLNear [3d\]: b can't kill
KiraLNear [3d\]: R4 alive
Thoravatar [4d\]: t5 r6
bensenseii [-\]: t5 s4 ftroiset
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I still feel like q13 only choice for b here
Ootakamoku [2d\]: have to escalate
momiji [3d\]: doesn't matter what b does, it's a hideous result
Thoravatar [4d\]: black plays Q13
Shunsun [8k\]: almost game over
EdhelDil [3k\]: oo: then w could follow ladder until he can attack top corner or enclose n12? (at a cost, though)
Thoravatar [4d\]: imo
josek [2k\]: b s4 t4 then what?
Koffein [-\]: q13 is alsmo my guess
Koffein [-\]: -m
Koffein [-\]: atleast try to force white to spend another move there
Azumi93 [9k\]: Mr. Pavol is slovak?
tartarin [3k\]: b t12 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: q13 t12 t11 s11 r6 t10 s6 is what will happen?
Schweiger [1d\]: q13  s14
LeT [-\]: Shunsun: just disconnect
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm
bensenseii [-\]: Pavol is, Azumi
FuzzFace [1k\]: pavol lisy look like a laundry brand
Azumi93 [9k\]: thanks ben
siskin [2d?\]: b T11
EdhelDil [3k\]: schweiger: yes, but t12 first ^^
WiteDragon [4k\]: Where is Pavol From?
Koffein [-\]: slovakia
FuzzFace [1k\]: slovakia
FuzzFace [1k\]: hes a slovak from slovakia
josek [2k\]: i dont think w will ignore r6
Schweiger [1d\]: s14 is sente...
Ootakamoku [2d\]: will b still be in the game if r10 is traded for r5?
Schweiger [1d\]: bl lives small.
thtrhtrh: how many times are you going to ask where is he from idiots?
tartarin [3k\]: t11 live yes siskin
Schweiger [1d\]: and p14 capture cuting st.
Koffein [-\]: t11 and black loses the game without any chance to fight back
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t13 q13 t8 r6 h4?
Amoxi: t11 can't be enough
WiteDragon [4k\]: untill you disconnect thtrefqvkb
kelemenz [2k\]: Slovakian with some Hungarian roots
thtrhtrh: each game u ask this,check the motherfucking european rating list or go congress webpage
Amoxi: lol
]
;B[pg]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: ohman, escalation
FuzzFace [1k\]: whatever
ftroiset [1k?\]: As I predicted
FuzzFace [1k\]: b is gote on this sequence
Koffein [-\]: black has to
Koffein [-\]: only chance to fight
Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, might pan out ok if b j5 threat works, tho when I started reading it I cant see it actually working
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and r6 threat just too small imo
josek [2k\]: i supose w m9 will be a threat after w responds to r6
Koffein [-\]: white might sacrifice with p14, but this means black lives with a lot more than just t11 
ftroiset [1k?\]: time for the ko, perhaps
Thumb [3d\]: T12 S11, yes ? B has not enough threats with the shicho
josek [2k\]: besides w can play the broken ladder for threats
maciek [2d\]: Where is Pavol from? :-)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: joseki, usually that is not an option
Koffein [-\]: maciek, hungary
pirx [1d\]: t12 s11 white wins...
FuzzFace [1k\]: pavol is from somewhere
maciek [2d\]: :))
EdhelDil [3k\]: t12 t11 s14 (b can't q14 )
Thumb [3d\]: W wins anyway it seems
WiteDragon [4k\]: ask the thrththrth dude in private maybe
Anquetil [1k\]: Is he Hungarian?
FuzzFace [1k\]: white win because is french
FuzzFace [1k\]: that all
Nande [2d\]: half
Amoxi: is there really any need to fight this difficult ko?
Amoxi: can just p14 and win i think?
k0n0 [?\]: no, he is not hungarian, but lives in a hungarian province
momiji [3d\]: c'est tout?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w starts the ko, and gives b a free move, and since there aint no move big enough on the board w will be leading after that.
Jakers [11k\]: t12
kyo99 [1k\]: the ko is starting
]
;W[sh]
;B[si]
;W[ri]C[kelemenz [2k\]: Pavol is forom Hungary but from a territory occupied by a separatistforce
androgo [2d?\]: sorry, in Android... b is Fan w is lisy?
josek [2k\]: this ko is heavy for b
tepid [-\]: here we go
Amoxi: other way around, androgo
Anquetil [1k\]: w is Fan
androgo [2d?\]: tx
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this aint really a ko
klausP [7d?\]: r6 or L4?
FuzzFace [1k\]: im a fan of white
Korf [1k\]: Heh, whining about outcame of WWI?
FuzzFace [1k\]: !!!
Koffein [-\]: l4 is bigger
Amoxi: he's really planning to ignore L4?
klausP [7d?\]: or j5+j3
Ootakamoku [2d\]: klaus, couldnt get that one to work either
TurtleDove [4k?\]: ko always fun for the scribe ;D
Muttley [2k\]: hum, can we keep the comments game related?  Most are thank you :)
ThiGar [3k\]: w can afford to drop n4 stones
JEGO [8k\]: a 20 points ko threat ?
FuzzFace [1k\]: ko is always strong play moove
Koffein [-\]: ko is an exchange
EdhelDil [3k\]: j4 t10 j5 h2 ?
Koffein [-\]: black is losing, he's looking for an exchange
hikarutoya [7k\]: black has no ko threats
Thumb [3d\]: Can W not answer L4 with J4 ? The ko is large enough
jakotaki [1d\]: j5 
AhSayuni [4d\]: j5 not a valid threat?
FuzzFace [1k\]: an excange when you took something
playful [?\]: r6
Songe [1d?\]: R6 is a ko threat
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ahsay, doesnt look lik eit, atleast not a threat to kill
Songe [1d?\]: then S5
GoKlaus [1d?\]: r6 for a trade, but if w answers, black isnt alife even by "wining" the ko
floating [2k\]: sure r6 is a ko threat ?
Muttley [2k\]: r6 is a ko threat
AhSayuni [4d\]: r6 is kinda small I think
Muttley [2k\]: but what else does b have?
Muttley [2k\]: any tenuki-style move is saying "I ain't got nuffin"£
EdhelDil [3k\]: q16 is a nice w threat
blurb1: but r5 has no influence on the board so m3 group is bigger , true?
AhSayuni [4d\]: around 20 points at best
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r6 smaller than l4, but even l4 hot enough
Amoxi: L4 mutt
Amoxi: or maybe j5?
Amoxi: seems no one can read it confidently haha
Anquetil [1k\]: j3
Muttley [2k\]: ahh, I was not sure L4 worked
TurtleDove [4k?\]: sometimes 2 moves somewhere is better than capture
Muttley [2k\]: w seems to have considerable nuisance value around there
nicat [1k\]: make live with t8
Muttley [2k\]: ie more than wiggle room :))
Amoxi: i think that's kind of the idea of ko, turtle o_o
nicat [1k\]: its sente
JEGO [8k\]: r6 possible
Amoxi: sometimes i wonder if other people are even reading the chat
FuzzFace [1k\]: b resign
TurtleDove [4k?\]: sure Amoxi, I'm saying the 2 moves don't have to threaten to capture that's all
Ootakamoku [2d\]: turtledove, today they have to
Amoxi: ah well fair enough perhaps, but not here
Thumb [3d\]: How costly N12 (or not resisting O8 ?) proved
Amoxi: yeah :/
]
;B[io]C[Muttley [2k\]: ah ha!
Amoxi: cool
LAhvac [-\]: I guess black will do fine when he kills the rest of the board ;-)
Amoxi: now we shall see
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I still claim this will not kill w
royu [5d\]: thumb, and k4 should have been at r13!! :) (think that is 4th time I said it)
Muttley [2k\]: LAhvac, "dream on" :)
Amoxi: yeah kind of excited to find out, oota :p
EdhelDil [3k\]: j4 s12 t13 s14 s11 
Minjhou [9k\]: who said J5?
Muttley [2k\]: or, "good luck with that" :)
Koffein [-\]: ootaka
kmr [1d\]: J5-tenuki-J3 and how white will live?
tuquedenne [4d\]: at least the 4th time :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: kmr, look at the aji at l8 and k6 and l8, combine those with w l4 sente
LAhvac [-\]: Muttley: many things may look impossible until the very moment they are done!
Muttley [2k\]: I bet on J4 anyway
Muttley [2k\]: hehehe, so true :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: q11 not in great danger so w can answer ko threats?
EdhelDil [3k\]: it's not like he *has* to capture b
Ootakamoku [2d\]: edhe, the ko is worth a bilion points
Muttley [2k\]: w can also argue "I strengthen elsewhere by answering these ko threats
royu [5d\]: r13 was a huge move -> protect any s12/r13 weakness, also makes q7 sente life for black in middle (b can then disregard w's o8), and lastly b would have right to either k4 type move later or l16 natural extension while attacking w m11 stones
Amoxi: feels like w wouldn't have started the ko if he thought this worked
josek [2k\]: EdhelDil s11 s14 then t8 or cature q14 miai
Amoxi: maybe i'm wrong
EdhelDil [3k\]: ootakamoku: answering j5 is  big too
Muttley [2k\]: ie perhaps w wants b to fight and eventually win the ko, so he gets play elsewhere
Koffein [-\]: royu, 6? :)
royu [5d\]: 5
Ootakamoku [2d\]: adhe, not same size category, problem is b t8 is sente against r5, also, the q13 stones arent captured
Amoxi: almost like he should have played r13 earlier, royu ;)
royu [5d\]: instead of k4!!
Amoxi: hehe
klausP [7d?\]: r14 for p13 made the ko much bigger
Muttley [2k\]: q13?
Koffein [-\]: and no, i don't think he should have played r13, w couldn't abuse the aji that time. i don't see what white can do if black resisted at o9 instead of p8 
EdhelDil [3k\]: t10 j3 c10 ?
Schweiger [1d\]:  wh k2 or connect
EdhelDil [3k\]: t10 j3 h4 j4 c10 
fekand4 [1d\]: t11
]
;W[ip]
;B[rh]C[Clade [6k\]: ooh
Muttley [2k\]: hehehe :) I win I win I win.
Amoxi: hm
Ootakamoku [2d\]: urm.. really interested to see the w threat
Koffein [-\]: h4 t13 p13 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: cause I Sure cant find one
Muttley [2k\]: Fan style, take it all
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w cant play t13 as a threat because b can s11 and live in sente
Koffein [-\]: w will get sente for another big move
floating [2k\]: does b have another threat around j4
Thoravatar [4d\]: t1 :P
Muttley [2k\]: if b wins the ko, w is giving up the upper right, right?
kelemenz [2k\]: M9 as kothreat?
HelloQtion [-\]: I would play Koffein seq
EdhelDil [3k\]: q16 only?
Koffein [-\]: p13 now is atleast 1 move threat
JEGO [8k\]: r6 several ko threats after
Koffein [-\]: the problem is - black has 2 (h4 h3 )
Muttley [2k\]: seems the only way w can use the aji
Amoxi: doubtful, jego
Thumb [3d\]: I'd say P13. Feeling is that W can capture either one of Q13 or S10
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, answring at j4 kinda comitted w to answer more threats there
ThiGar [3k\]: Bar none, take 'em all
Jakers [11k\]: t1
EdhelDil [3k\]: p13 t13 q14 indeed would be too good for w, so it's nice threat
kmr [1d\]: i would play Crowis sequence
josek [2k\]: m9
Liso66 [?\]: egc - time?
Jakers [11k\]: t14
Thumb [3d\]: P14 other wise ?
HelloQtion [-\]: And what is crowis seq ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I wonder how many ladder threats w can play, before its worth to b to just break the ladder instead of continue the ko
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, ya, ladder threats look good
EdhelDil [3k\]: only 1 more threat for b around j4, as then w will have a miai escape (h4 j3 , or j3 h4 : then w can ignore)
JEGO [8k\]: t13
kmr [1d\]: i dont know yet what is Crowis seq, but hope he will tell us ^^
crowis [-\]: Hi :)
HelloQtion [-\]: Ahah
HelloQtion [-\]: Hi crowis
Jakers [11k\]: hi
EdhelDil [3k\]: hello hwang in-seong :)  we are all waiting for a comment from you ^^  if you don't mind 
manofearth [?\]: just connect s14
kmr [1d\]: high dan players needs encourage to speak themselvs!
copyright [2d\]: m9 
ThiGar [3k\]: crowis, what is your famed sequence?
crowis [-\]: It looks good situation for White, Black is endure the game.
Koffein [-\]: i'd really like to type my expected sequence, but typing so many ko moves is confusing
]
;W[og]
;B[pf]C[ThiGar [3k\]: thx for the omen, crowis
]
;W[ri]C[Muttley [2k\]: Koffein, you could demo it in a clone
crowis [-\]: Since J5 works as Ko-threat, it's much better situation for Black than I expected :p
weiqidevil [-\]: you can ctrl-click or is this what you meant by “type”?
tuquedenne [4d\]: I'd like to type my sequence but the margin of my computer is too small
Thumb [3d\]: ^^ 
EdhelDil [3k\]: crowis: you'd have ignored j5?
Koffein [-\]: i tried, weiqi, still too confusing :)
weiqidevil [-\]: ah ok^^
Muttley [2k\]: My sequences are one move deep and even then they are wrong
weiqidevil [-\]: lol
crowis [-\]: If ignores J5, then J3 is working
Amoxi: the first move is the hard one :p
Koffein [-\]: i always forget whether s11 or s12 is the actual ko move ..
Muttley [2k\]: so true :)
pancake [-\]: wow, this ctrl click thing! I've been on kgs for quite some years and I never knew
crowis [-\]: It looks difficult to live inside.
Muttley [2k\]: pancake, kgs is full of nice nuggets to find :)
pancake [-\]: that's really useful :P
pancake [-\]: ^^
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, not much point writing out crazy long sequences anyways, I think something like 20 is maximum before it gets really confusing to try to follow them from coordinates
EdhelDil [3k\]: pancake: don't abuse this new power ^^
crowis [-\]: same here pancake, now I knew that too!
EGC2013a [?\]: time left W: 1:24 B: 1:24
pancake [-\]: k15 e10 j10 h13 f7  what did you say Edhel?
Evaugh [3k?\]: Oh wow, always wondered how ppl could type out these sequences so fast
EdhelDil [3k\]: thanks egc!
Rukasu [3k\]: how long is b taking for that move already??
Thumb [3d\]: After H4 and H3 threats ( W J3 and K3, say), does B have more threats?
EdhelDil [3k\]: rukasu: not easy to choose next b ko threat
Amoxi: typing sequences isn't nearly as annoying as reading them
Koffein [-\]: thumb, n10 
LAhvac [-\]: yeah, using ctrl + mouse is like watch youtube video and type 1980 :-) easter eggs everywhere
]
;B[jq]C[crowis [-\]: It's difficult game for Black. Black should not use bad Ko-threats. And that's hard.
Muttley [2k\]: like I said, it all strengthens white's hand if w loses the ko, those stones can become mochikomi?
HelloQtion [-\]: It would be cool KGS implements a similar feature as Kaya for watching seq
Muttley [2k\]: HelloQ, that is so true :) maybe in the next life (new server) :)
Koffein [-\]: k3 for example is a bad threat :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: koffein: why?
Gym [4d\]: bad?
Thumb [3d\]: H4
Koffein [-\]: it loses points
josek [2k\]: h4
Muttley [2k\]: Kaya has many nice features
Minjhou [9k\]: if j5 was a valid thread, k3 seems valid too
sheeryjay [?\]: the new web server in development for kgs seems even more feature impaired I fear :(
XiaoLong [1d\]: just no ppl
EdhelDil [3k\]: h4 looks nice indeed
kmr [1d\]: u mean this type of wood?
Amoxi: the server, presumably
LAhvac [-\]: Muttley: is anyone playing at Kaya?
Muttley [2k\]: kaya the server :)
kmr [1d\]: haha Mutt you got trolled!
Muttley [2k\]: I don't know at the mo, LAhvac :)
Koffein [-\]: you know kgs is dead when even admins advertize other servers
]
;W[iq]C[Muttley [2k\]: hehe, ktschhhh :)
]
;B[rh]C[Thumb [3d\]: Roh.
Muttley [2k\]: Koffein, kgs's new press officer, speaks.
EdhelDil [3k\]: q15 
crowis [-\]: Hmm..I thought White answers at h4.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein it could be that b has read out that w cannot continue the ko for the duration of the k3 area threats, in that case playing the k3 threat would be ok. ofcourse w seems to disagree so yes, probably just bad ko threat :)
]
;W[of]C[Anquetil [1k\]: q15
]
(;B[ri]C[nicat [1k\]: if bl just would have ended the ko swith sente against54 would not be good enough?
crowis [-\]: ??
])
(;B[pe]C[Muttley [2k\]: anyway, back to the game, they are duking it out
EdhelDil [3k\]: ??
Anquetil [1k\]: zomg
]
;W[ri]C[HelloQtion [-\]: Mutt, maybe in the new thing currently developed
Amoxi: haha
pancake [-\]: if he could answer at h4 k3 would be a huge loss...
Jakers [11k\]: t8
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok, now its super free move
Muttley [2k\]: yeah, maybe
]
;B[ir]C[Clade [6k\]: that almost gave me a heart attack x_x
EdhelDil [3k\]: t10 
Muttley [2k\]: game relayer wins best game troll ever
crowis [-\]: This J2 is annoying..
EdhelDil [3k\]: j6 h2 miai?
gruik [1d\]: I don't understand b, now w doesn't need to win the ko to get a good profit from this
Clade [6k\]: if h4 this couldnt have happened, right?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and didnt w kinda say "you get a free move now" when he played p14?
Muttley [2k\]: I would have thought the reverse, gruik
HelloQtion [-\]: l2 will be annoying
pancake [-\]: maybe there's actually something here :)
davy014 [-\]: why crowis?
Amoxi: i thought so, oota
EGC2013a [?\]: sorry my computer mouse tried to escape
]
;W[hr]C[EGC2013a [?\]: :)
josek [2k\]: i dont get why j3 and not h4
strange123: hello, who is winning?
Muttley [2k\]: anyway, perhaps let's give crowis some room to commentate?
pancake [-\]: hmm, this seems like a mistake
strange123: hi muttley
Muttley [2k\]: hi
HelloQtion [-\]: l2 m2 h3 problem ?
]
;B[kr]C[pancake [-\]: but now black should continue here
strange123: yes crowis should comment
ftroiset [1k?\]: L2 is getting troublesome
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I can feel the headache I will have from watching this game, Im so compleatly at a loss as to what they are planning
gruik [1d\]: ok now I see
crowis [-\]: I came here for my private lesson, but my student didn't come yet :p
sagesse [-\]: why didnt he take the ko now?
fekand4 [1d\]: another ko?
Clade [6k\]: ...but the ko! D:
crowis [-\]: So I have time but I don't know when he'll come ^^;
Thumb [3d\]: Bless hil
Thumb [3d\]: *m
pancake [-\]: haha so wasting time kibitzing ;)
EdhelDil [3k\]: g3 simple and thick
Thumb [3d\]: (your student)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: to me it just looks like w is messing up big time, but he is super strong so that cant be :(
yabyum [3k\]: may be e did
josek [2k\]: l2  then just j6
]
;W[hq]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: oh, even thicker
]
;B[ms]C[Clade [6k\]: n1?
EdhelDil [3k\]: i like w position
pancake [-\]: black's like 'hopefully I will be the first one who'll have time to take the ko'
Amoxi: ohh hmm
]
;W[in]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: l4 before n1?
Koffein [-\]: interesting turn of events
crowis [-\]: I didn't expect that Black moves lower side group immediately..
floating [2k\]: n1 bigger than the stake of ko
Thoravatar [4d\]: this result is good for white i guess
yabyum [3k\]: ªit tªe ko
pancake [-\]: take ko now?
]
;B[ho]C[crowis [-\]: It looks Black is very busy. White has an advantage on the right side Ko
EdhelDil [3k\]: ko not that big for w, now : lots of gain in bottom? and p14 ensure w lives there too?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: thoravatar, how is this good? b is getting stuff, and ko still open
XiaoLong [1d\]: h5 looks bigger than ko
FuzzFace [1k\]: w + 100 here
]
;W[jn]
;B[rh]C[pancake [-\]: ootakamoku, b's not 'getting stuff'
Jakers [11k\]: t8
Thoravatar [4d\]: white is getting stuff
fadjal [4k\]: who is playing ? cant see with my phone ...
pancake [-\]: w's getting the lower left
copyright [2d\]: m9 
crowis [-\]: White can just play G6 to kill the two stones
EdhelDil [3k\]: h6 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b k3 stones not going to total waste, looks like getting stuff
Koffein [-\]: fan hui (w) vs pavol lisy (b)
grandaure [5k\]: w fan hui b lisy pavol
kmr [1d\]: W -Fan Hui B -Lisy Pavol
ThiGar [3k\]: anyone noticed w is after n9?
fbp [7d\]: g6 is big enough crowis?
crowis [-\]: and attack Black's middle group. Then it's good game for White.
profan [-\]: is this the final for first place?
grandaure [5k\]: yes
crowis [-\]: Yes, White's potention for the lower and left side is very big
grandaure [5k\]: foe eurochamp
WVoron [5d\]: for last
fadjal [4k\]: thx guy
grandaure [5k\]: *for
fbp [7d\]: thank¨
fbp [7d\]: thanks
]
;W[ik]C[pancake [-\]: it's painful for black that he cannot continue the fight on the lower side
arczi87 [1k\]: nice move
tuquedenne [4d\]: j'ai beau être matinal...
josek [2k\]: j9 interesting
Ootakamoku [2d\]: if b ends ko, he has q7 sente?
Reym [-\]: w states his intention more obviously
FuzzFace [1k\]: j'ai mal
FuzzFace [1k\]: =)
XiaoLong [1d\]: yes j9 v strong move
Thoravatar [4d\]: t13
Koffein [-\]: ootaka, no.
EdhelDil [3k\]: seems w got new ko threats ^^
Thoravatar [4d\]: there is no answer to this ko threat
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, you saying its too small?
crowis [-\]: White is far ahead.  To move J2, L2 were too early..
pancake [-\]: but will he live if he takes the ko
Koffein [-\]: w is alive after q7 
Muttley [2k\]: so w is saying at the end, "live, I will have my two moves and lead"?
Thoravatar [4d\]: t13, struggle for life and try to find a complication later in the game to get some tiny chance
gruik [1d\]: and the ko is still there
tartarin [3k\]: j9 waou superfan ))
royu [5d\]: w follow up move is k11?
profan [-\]: question for dan: s10 is dangerous, and to attack q11 is very difficult, why not to sacrifice 3 stones having sente, playg s14?
josek [2k\]: j9 kinda helps w two weak groups
Sedol87: white has no need to kill black, big middle influence is enough to winn
Thoravatar [4d\]: exactly my point
EdhelDil [3k\]: b has quite a lot of points after t13, so still a game
Sedol87: black has only one corner 
strange123: is w winning?
ftroiset [1k?\]: b cznter group is not yet alive
momiji [3d\]: the ko was obviously horrible for b, he made a yose reduction on the lower side, and his centre group is weakened...
Shinichi56 [-\]: this influence is bigger than b territory after t13
WiteDragon [4k\]: such a heavy ko dominating the whole game in a final game of european tournament. I'd run out of there crying :)
Koffein [-\]: didn't muttley say this is a KO game?
strange123: this is a big ko game
Sedol87: KO with ko
strange123: :)
FuzzFace [1k\]: ko kokola
royu [5d\]: maybe he meant this is an ok game
FuzzFace [1k\]: ko kokoko
floating [2k\]: lets just all hope that this will not end soon :)
tuquedenne [4d\]: si tu me donnes tes ananas moi je te donne mes noix de coco ?
josek [2k\]: please end soon, i need to sleep
Defense7 [3d\]: no chance of that
floating [2k\]: :p
]
;B[jj]C[Clade [6k\]: if you give me pineapples i'll give you coconuts?
Koffein [-\]: this does not exactly prevent m9 m8 l8 
floating [2k\]: is w gonna play that
]
;W[ri]C[zyklop [1k\]: b collects problems
Koffein [-\]: he almost finished his collection
Minininja [1d\]: h6 
Clade [6k\]: where is the next threat? D:
]
;B[hl]C[zyklop [1k\]: ^^
Thumb [3d\]: H6 simply ?
Durgrim [2d\]: S12 ?
Songe [1d?\]: H6 honte to me too...
crowis [-\]: Black trys to make complicate game which is necessary.
Koffein [-\]: (the possibility of the cut even exists after h8 )
]
;W[il]C[crowis [-\]: I gotta go, please enjoy the game! And I hope that I can give you a pleasure with my game soon! :D
Songe [1d?\]: ^^
Clade [6k\]: thanks crowis!
WiteDragon [4k\]: thanks crowis!
Thumb [3d\]: C'état très sensuel comme au-revoir ça
Idn [3d\]: noir paie tres tres cher ce ko : /
Thumb [3d\]: *i
Defense7 [3d\]: who is crowis?
arczi87 [1k\]: hwang in-seong
TurtleDove [4k?\]: top man
synthol: a random guy who gives pleasure with his game
HelloQtion [-\]: One of te stronger player living in europe
Amoxi: hwang in-seong
tactac [1d\]: The strongest ;)
synthol: stronger than fan ?
davy014 [-\]: no
udreka [?\]: Second only to Cho Seok-bin ;)
TurtleDove [4k?\]: similar
pancake [-\]: 2 points stronger in EGF rating now ;)
]
;B[im]
;W[hn]C[nicat [1k\]: i understand nothing who can explain: if black lives witr10 wh must plkay r8 bl has sente
WiteDragon [4k\]: strongest go player in europe probably
WiteDragon [4k\]: From Korea
]
;B[hm]C[tartarin [3k\]: maybee crowis its black 'corbeau'  'crow'
pancake [-\]: but after the congress probably not anymore 
Shunsun [8k\]: T11
Defense7 [3d\]: i thought this was like the final game, when/for what is he playing?
copyright [2d\]: s12 
Anquetil [1k\]: s12
ftroiset [1k?\]: fan se débrouille lieux avec les kos que thomas
Amoxi: nicat, r8 is occupied
]
;W[go]
;B[rh]C[Amoxi: if you mean r6, it's not true
HelloQtion [-\]: nicat i'm confused by you question
Thumb [3d\]: M9 now?
copyright [2d\]: m7 
tuquedenne [4d\]: il y a du couper-keima de partout
ThiGar [3k\]: m2
tuquedenne [4d\]: c'est vraiment moche ce jeu
josek [2k\]: m2 so small
Odysseu9s [6k\]: M2
nicat [1k\]: r7 of course but bl played all kind of ko threats thay gave away poi
Odysseu9s [6k\]: Already that
pancake [-\]: m9 is a bad move, w has potential cut with L7 later, but M9 wastes that
ThiGar [3k\]: but m2 is a threat!
PRosen [2d\]: c'est quoi déjà le titre de son bouquin les formes et leurs esthétiques ?
Sedol87: flower ko continues and white gained already profit
ftroiset [1k?\]: m9 is a threat
Amoxi: still can't understand you, nicat
]
;W[lk]C[ThiGar [3k\]: this flower ko is no picnic
ftroiset [1k?\]: yes :-)
pancake [-\]: ooh :/ he thinks otherwise
pancake [-\]: well it are a lot of threats like this
Thumb [3d\]: I taught him well. Or maybe it's the other way round? Can't remember
]
;B[ll]
;W[ri]C[tuquedenne [4d\]: way too old
Thumb [3d\]: :(
pancake [-\]: oh I thought b would respond with L8
josek [2k\]: r6 olny option?
nicat [1k\]: if bl would have would have ended the ko white must play r6 to live
copyright [2d\]: r6 
Minininja [1d\]: game over soon?
Amoxi: no, nicat
]
;B[qn]C[nicat [1k\]: yes
JEGO [8k\]: r6 i saw this for a long time yet
Amoxi: *roll eyes* okay.
Durgrim [2d\]: ^_^
tuquedenne [4d\]: yeah yeah even i saw this move before the game started
josek [2k\]: w still have m7
floating [2k\]: I saw this on my own game earlier
esrig [7k\]: w safe if w responds
Joemac [2d?\]: you are so strong
nicat [1k\]: now the game is over
tuquedenne [4d\]: tiens Bernardo
Joemac [2d?\]: coucou simon :-)
Koffein [-\]: game was fun and exciting
JEGO [8k\]: lisy has store in this mind r6 move 40 moves ahead :)
tuquedenne [4d\]: toujours viennois ?
flogo [2d\]: c'est comme à la maison ici : )
Joemac [2d?\]: tjs :-)
Joemac [2d?\]: tjs parisien?
tuquedenne [4d\]: non, grenoblois :)
Joemac [2d?\]: ah! :-)
Carpenter [-\]: s6 looks like a good move
]
;W[rn]
;B[rh]C[Evaugh [3k?\]: l8
ThiGar [3k\]: viennois de la Drôme?
synthol: s6 looked likethe only move ?
]
;W[ij]C[tuquedenne [4d\]: non, l'autre Vienne, sans ça ce serait trop simple :)
XiaoLong [1d\]: does this game determin the new euro champ?
Clade [6k\]: take the ko
Sedol87: i would take it now
TurtleDove [4k?\]: yes X
XiaoLong [1d\]: ty
josek [2k\]: h10 weird
Joemac [2d?\]: la Vienne des Habsburg
ThiGar [3k\]: Le Go viennois est fort, je crois
JEGO [8k\]: t5 move already dengerous also
Minininja [1d\]: aiming for l7 ?
Schweiger [1d\]: taken.. l7 and cut
kmr [1d\]: wow 515 observers, nice record
Carpenter [-\]: eh, not a record
Mocramis [1k?\]: t5 s4 t4 t3  no problems for me
WiteDragon [4k\]: went over 1000 several times
Thumb [3d\]: L8?
synthol: this ko is pretty big, is j10 that much a threat ?
]
;B[ji]
;W[ri]C[Minininja [1d\]: b has s5 next
kmr [1d\]: eh yes its record - most observers on game from EGC 2013
Amoxi: yeah i cannot believe how many times we've discussed the status of the r4 group
Amoxi: and people still have it wrong
Mocramis [1k?\]: he lacks one lib to s5
ThiGar [3k\]: it is an EGC 2013 record
P0tat0 [?\]: white's is as efficient as zlatan!
Mocramis [1k?\]: ha as a threat >< sorry
]
;B[ro]C[JEGO [8k\]: s5-s4
Mocramis [1k?\]: t5 seems to remove more aji
]
;W[so]
;B[rh]C[synthol: s5 is really good threat, t8 is sente now, right ?
Thumb [3d\]: L7
Mocramis [1k?\]: white lacks threts
Mocramis [1k?\]: threats
synthol: in a further threat in mean
Pingu007 [3d\]: l8?
Mocramis [1k?\]: t13 maybe 
]
;W[kl]
;B[km]
;W[ri]C[JEGO [8k\]: s4
Pingu007 [3d\]: t13 b zill connect qnd z is eqten
]
;B[rq]C[mooooo [5k\]: s4 seems too small for me
]
;W[rp]
;B[rh]C[Pingu007 [3d\]: (sorry qwerty ) :)
mooooo [5k\]: but fan thinks different
ThiGar [3k\]: k8
Joemac [2d?\]: coucou Astrid :-)
tuquedenne [4d\]: retourne regarder ton fils, Pingu
Pingu007 [3d\]: il a gqgn2 lq derniere
Krapsman [2k\]: m7
tuquedenne [4d\]: c'est bien
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w can play 2 slightly lossmaking threats, at n8 and n7 
tuquedenne [4d\]: 5/9 finalement ?
pourri [4k\]: passe en azert :)
pourri [4k\]: azerty*
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and ya, m7 does look better than n8
Pingu007 [3d\]: 4/9
fanfan [3d\]: y a 10 parties, tuq
Pingu007 [3d\]: 3/5 au we
Ootakamoku [2d\]: can only find 1 big threat for b, at s4
tuquedenne [4d\]: je sais, fanfan :-)
PaCon [4k\]: k8
tuquedenne [4d\]: je sais aussi lire une feuille de résultats, j'ai plein dee qualités incroyables ;-)
fanfan [3d\]: ok, pas vu qu'il a oublié de se lever une fois :)
Krapsman [2k\]: after m7 b has no more threat
Ootakamoku [2d\]: actually, maybe better to play n8 threat, as it guarantees a second threat
Pingu007 [3d\]: non c t fait expres
Minjhou [9k\]: still playing the ko?
Pingu007 [3d\]: yep
Joemac [2d?\]: faut pas éxagerer tuque...
Mocramis [1k?\]: t4 isnt a thread=t ?
Mocramis [1k?\]: threat ?
Joemac [2d?\]: :-)
Pingu007 [3d\]: coucou joe
mooooo [5k\]: how much time left?
Minininja [1d\]: k8 also possible i quess
pourri [4k\]: I like K8
fatih [2d\]: cant believe that black is going to win the ko 
redreoicy [2d\]: k8 leaves w short of threats
fatih [2d\]: i thought that white had a ton of threats 
Amoxi: is he?
redreoicy [2d\]: maybe
fatih [2d\]: i thought pavol was losing yesterday, so my comments are too weak for this level :) 
Amoxi: not ideal threats but looks to me like w can still win
fanfan [3d\]: i like w k8
Amoxi: (the ko)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: k8 m7 and w has no more threats after that
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b still has t4
]
;W[jl]C[fatih [2d\]: k8 t13 m7 n8 m6 
fatih [2d\]: my sequence 
Minininja [1d\]: m1 small?
redreoicy [2d\]: welp he played k8 :S
Amoxi: very
redreoicy [2d\]: k8 is good for the outside anyhow
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b will answer
redreoicy [2d\]: can probably threaten k11
TheCoon [1d\]: m5
fatih [2d\]: but still black can connect 
kmr [1d\]: M1 is bad if so M2 but still small
Ootakamoku [2d\]: redroicy, sure, but again, annoying part its the last threat
Clade [6k\]: Take the ko or I might need an ambulance x_x
AhSayuni [4d\]: k11 threatens o11.. how can he attack it?..
redreoicy [2d\]: w can play moves like h12 as a threat
fatih [2d\]: i would eliminate the ko 
mooooo [5k\]: does this give b a threat at h11 ?
AhSayuni [4d\]: I guess w is ready for an exchange
fatih [2d\]: white still needs to care m10 group 
Clade [6k\]: unless j12 now have become new threat for b?
pancake [-\]: if b takes the ko he has too much nastiness going on on the outside after w cuts I think
Gym [4d\]: take ko?
Koffein [-\]: but i don't think black is ready
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t13 m7 m6 n8 n7 and start another ko
AhSayuni [4d\]: m7 n8 m6 q7 t13 
Amoxi: agreed pancake
Sedol87: 10 wins for Fan on EGC will show the big difference between of european and real pro quality
JEGO [8k\]: m12 is good for black also 
mooooo [5k\]: fayn hui is pro?
haruyuki [7k?\]: weekend tournament he lost  a game
fatih [2d\]: t13 will show fighting spirit and we all know how crazy pavol is 
Koffein [-\]: chinese pro
AhSayuni [4d\]: and then some calculation - if w can give up on q12 or not
Mocramis [1k?\]: now fan is european :)
haruyuki [7k?\]: fan lost a game^^
Reym [-\]: what if m7 m6?
pancake [-\]: who'd he lose to haruyuki?
royu [5d\]: fan lost one game to ilya :)
ToDie [3d\]: i dont think that b can give away m8 
behta [1d\]: Fan was a chinese pro 15 yeas ago
haruyuki [7k?\]: he lost to ilya
pancake [-\]: ah ok ^^
isa [3k\]: in fast timing
pivoglotov [5k?\]: it was weekend tournament )
TheCoon [1d\]: doesnt m5 fix in sente?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: "fast" 1h maintime and 30sec byomi
redreoicy [2d\]: t13 m7 n8 m6 q7 would be intersting
tuquedenne [4d\]: "fast timing" = 1h...
pivoglotov [5k?\]: not a main
Sedol87: one lost in weekend tournament
Evaugh [3k?\]: Was it already mentioned that fan lost a game?
tuquedenne [4d\]: it's not fast, come on, it's most euro tournaments time limit :)
fatih [2d\]: m7 proper move here, but i doubt pavol plays it 
Mocramis [1k?\]: people said he was drunk
behta [1d\]: and he loose in Strasbourg may 2013
luckychewy [1k?\]: guys guys i heard fan lost a game
fanfan [3d\]: fan eats chocolate at breakfast: this is the secret of his strength
bensenseii [-\]: behta: Against an insei trainer eh
Sedol87: also pro may lose
ThiGar [3k\]: yes, Sedol, and to think that Fan Hui is only Chinese fed 2p! thousands of chinese pros are stronger than Fan!
Ootakamoku [2d\]: behta, I heard a rumor he lost a bargame in 2011 too.
tuquedenne [4d\]: he lost 2 games in Paris 2013
Sedol87: yes thigar
mooooo [5k\]: what if i tell you that evry go player once lost a game?
kmr [1d\]: there is not 1000 chinese pro for sure
royu [5d\]: yeah, there's probably a few thousand stronger than fan in China
tuquedenne [4d\]: well maybe he was pissed after it :)
behta [1d\]: ouai il arrete pas de perdre quoi :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: there are like.. 400 chinese pros?
backpack1 [2d\]: there are billions of chinese people, so i guess there are more than 1000 pros ^^
Shinichi56 [-\]: yes i saw a lot chinese amateur 6d of his strenght actually
Sedol87: aboout 1000 pros in the world
fanfan [3d\]: there are less in pros in china than in japan
josek [2k\]: 'go is not so popuar in china nowadays
royu [5d\]: yeah, will be a huge number of amateurs stronger 
pivoglotov [5k?\]: i'm want pavol victory in this game )
P0tat0 [?\]: yeah nowadays basketball is popular there
Defense7 [3d\]: i'm is short for i am
Sedol87: But the chinese pro players are the strongest now
Amoxi: lol defense
pivoglotov [5k?\]: 529 ppl in this game. not bad for kgs
]
;B[gj]C[ThiGar [3k\]: Aside from strength, It is also Fan Hui's fabulous teaching skills that got Debarre where he is now
tuquedenne [4d\]: ... and guo's maybe :)
kmr [1d\]: Fan is about strenght of Bin and In-Seong and they were about top ama, so not so many ama would be stronger than Fan, i think not more than about 20-30
ThiGar [3k\]: ..and Guo fabulous too
Sedol87: its a chance to learn more for all european streong players
megaschaf [1k\]: thats a never ending ko :)
Liso66 [?\]: this year guests from asia are not playing so good 
behta [1d\]: There 'll be a very big paper on the RFG about this EGC2013 with Fan and Thomas
P0tat0 [?\]: nobody is stronger than holynec on kgs
flogo [2d\]: lol
P0tat0 [?\]: :)
esrig [7k\]: what's RFG?
mooooo [5k\]: guo alwas nice advises like "this goup! Kill IT!"
Thumb [3d\]: J11. B's still trying to up the ante
tuquedenne [4d\]: french go newspaper
flogo [2d\]: Revue Française de Go
Evaugh [3k?\]: m7 m6 n8 n7 sente for W right?
Sedol87: pros does play strong only for money
flogo [2d\]: (RFG)
grandaure [5k\]: french go journal
behta [1d\]: the french go magazine
Liso66 [?\]: http://www.egc2012.eu/congress/main-tournaments/open-european-championship/main-10-results and http://egc2013.go.art.pl/EGC2013_main.html looks different from this point of view
P0tat0 [?\]: the french go tabloid
Ootakamoku [2d\]: wheeee! gotta love b fighting spirit, f10 good attempt at saving the situation if nothing else
esrig [7k\]: ah, merci 
pancake [-\]: black's going to tenuki after this?
pancake [-\]: he cannot, right, has to continue this fight again 
Thumb [3d\]: J11 M7 S11
pancake [-\]: seems really hard
JEGO [8k\]: j12 W now?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b going to give up the k11 stones, just taking all the aji away while he still can
Ootakamoku [2d\]: j11 m7 s11 t4 t3 s12 k12 t13 is the plan I think
pancake [-\]: giving up k11 stones is horrible
copyright [2d\]: j11 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: tho good chance w isnt going along
pancake [-\]: then the ko was not that big at all 
ThiGar [3k\]: i remember guo's new year's commented game. She always admits having drunk too much champagne
mooooo [5k\]: such a centre group b would get is worth alot
Ootakamoku [2d\]: pancake, but its like there is a choice here? ko still bigger than k10 stones
kmr [1d\]: in 2009 there were a lot of good ama form asia
pancake [-\]: but w needs 2 moves for the ko
pancake [-\]: I think b will continue the fight
]
;W[hi]C[Sedol87: korean or chinese 7 dans are stronger than europeans
JEGO [8k\]: g11 also
pancake [-\]: or at least not give up those cutting stones
]
;B[ln]C[backpack1 [2d\]: chinese 7dans way too strong
josek [2k\]: if b saves k11 but loses ko, he will have no territory
Muttley [2k\]: eat em for breakfast.
backpack1 [2d\]: are*
]
;W[ri]C[Amoxi: every time i see your name, i think you're backpast :(
norb [1d\]: are there any north korean strong go players?
pancake [-\]: now b has some kothreat-ish things again
Sedol87: so its an honour for as to have Fan as european player now
Sedol87: for us
ThiGar [3k\]: definitely
Namastee [4d\]: north korean strong yes
megaschaf [1k\]: t4 ?
]
;B[fh]C[kmr [1d\]: t4 is nice ko threat
norb [1d\]: where they play ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t4 is the last direct threat
Sedol87: maybe the era of Guo comes wiht Fan
]
;W[hg]C[mooooo [5k\]: in this video  pro shows why chinese so strong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
kelemenz [2k\]: North Koreaamong top countries in ama WorldChamp.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but truly, b playing the outside threats is awesome
Liso66 [?\]: fan, pavol and shiksin are going to represent europe to china in december we will see ... 
Muttley [2k\]: what tournament?
Liso66 [?\]: (and shikshina)
Liso66 [?\]: wsmg
Muttley [2k\]: thx
]
;B[jg]C[pancake [-\]: wmsg*
Muttley [2k\]: that's around again :)
Eduardo [2k\]: Hi everybody! good morrow
Namastee [4d\]: fight!
mooooo [5k\]: ko getting bigger
regginos [2d\]: finish the ko now. S12
Muttley [2k\]: ko's on the backburner for now
Thumb [3d\]: S12
Durgrim [2d\]: s12
ftroiset [1k?\]: not a yhreat
pancake [-\]: finishing ko now feels slow
Sedol87: blacks idea is to make an miai
HisokaH [-\]: what time for the players left ?
Sedol87: even by loosing ko he can attack the other white group
Mocramis [1k?\]: why m6  ? it lets n8  (although its not that big :s)
josek [2k\]: s12 necessary now
ThiGar [3k\]: j12 threatens to cut, therefore connecting the ko now is good
flogo [2d\]: D15 ?
Thumb [3d\]: feels slw but if it seals the game...
Muttley [2k\]: ok, here's the thinh
Muttley [2k\]: thing
Muttley [2k\]: b loses ko, where is b territory?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: the ko is getting smaller by the minute
Evaugh [3k?\]: K13 already threatens to cut
pancake [-\]: muttley, he will gain some by chasing H11 around
ThiGar [3k\]: welcome back Muttley
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b territory if he loses the ko is at h11, or if it lives b will gain huge on top and left
profan [-\]: just for the show i take ko :D
tuquedenne [4d\]: is s12 a better way to finish the ko than t10 ?
Muttley [2k\]: ;)
tuquedenne [4d\]: (I like that kind of stupid questions)
josek [2k\]: w is getting surrounded ko is getting bigger
Eduardo [2k\]: s12 now :/
Muttley [2k\]: yes
mooooo [5k\]: b teritory q2 r17 n7
Koffein [-\]: tuque, i think yes (1 ko threat less)
floating [2k\]: b fails
Muttley [2k\]: because T10 leaves a ko threat ...
floating [2k\]: :(((((((((((
flogo [2d\]: i put my hand on d15 !
Reym [-\]: take the ko before it becomes worthless :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w must be pained by this development
momiji [3d\]: k13 kind of meaningless
tuquedenne [4d\]: yeah but in case of semeai it could be easier for white to take the r10 stones :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: looks like b managed to complicated a position that looked very good for w
flogo [2d\]: some risky call
Koffein [-\]: black could always just retake during a capturing race
ftroiset [1k?\]: j14
fekand4 [1d\]: g7
Muttley [2k\]: then that's a concrete consideration, tuquedenne
Muttley [2k\]: difficult to say
ThiGar [3k\]: or n8
pivoglotov [5k?\]: get get get get get!!!!
Muttley [2k\]: go lie down, pivoglotov.
mozarto [?\]: not sure about the connection
Muttley [2k\]: :))
UFO [-\]: im a little late
pivoglotov [5k?\]: sorry )
Muttley [2k\]: ehehe, np :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t10 vs s12 is interesting question, s12 is 1 or more point loss if b somehow reduces w to 1 eye, however, plaing at t10, leaves b with very good kothreat
Mukti [4d\]: S12 and it seems more or less over to me.
Koffein [-\]: btw, tuque, i was thinking about the same about 40 moves ago :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: s12 is relagated to minor status until the h13 group is resolved
Muttley [2k\]: I was wondering about it before the game started.
UFO [-\]: hoi filip
Muttley [2k\]: I might exaggerate.
Mukti [4d\]: Hoi
megaschaf [1k\]: hoi UFO
Reym [-\]: but taking S12 might help h13
UFO [-\]: hoi megaschaf
mozarto [?\]: don't be modest muttley
WiteDragon [4k\]: hoi allemaal
mozarto [?\]: ;)
megaschaf [1k\]: määääähh
Muttley [2k\]: can black cut white by wedging at H12 eventually?
Muttley [2k\]: hehe
UFO [-\]: :)
Koffein [-\]: he can, but it accomplishes nothing
Weakling [1d?\]: h12 g12 j12 g11 
UFO [-\]: hoi witte draak
Muttley [2k\]: right
resusou: who can be the first pro in these guys?
Thumb [3d\]: Oo, if not S12 the Q11 group is uneasy. 
Muttley [2k\]: just wondering if there is mileage in it later
Muttley [2k\]: b needs to be alive both sides I guess for it to be of any consequence
Thumb [3d\]: if S12 B has to have something very severe on W's H13, and I don't see it (yet ^^)
Sedol87: Even if Lisy may lost, its a great talent
Icare [1k\]: w will fill the ko
davy014 [-\]: or not
mozarto [?\]: don't think so
Mocramis [1k?\]: time ?
wkwing789 [11k\]: is there any live for this game?
Muttley [2k\]: I don't know, can w play j15?
Eduardo [2k\]: fill the ko now isnt so good :/
Liso66 [?\]: http://www.worldmindgames.net/results-dvd/GO/files/GOM001000_C74_11.0.pdf - we could hope that Fan help europe do better result this year
Staubkind [5k\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
Koffein [-\]: well, h12 _is_ a weakness in theory and should be considered. 1) does it work now? if yes: use it as soon as possible. if no: is there a way to use it later? if yes: try to play in a way to use it later. if no: well, better luck next time
grandaure [5k\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
Eduardo [2k\]: i am looking better the game now, w can to attack k13 first!...is a must!
tuquedenne [4d\]: @Koffein : yes i'm always a bit late regarding your thoughts :)
]
;W[rh]C[Muttley [2k\]: hehehehe
Thumb [3d\]: Fan reads a lot there. if BG13 next, J12?
royu [5d\]: OMG OMG OMG!
Eduardo [2k\]: :/
Muttley [2k\]: you have your answer
Eduardo [2k\]: noo
Koffein [-\]: well
Koffein [-\]: endgame starts now :)
profan [-\]: can you show clocks check (EGC2013a) ?
Muttley [2k\]: at move 128, Fan either a) declared victory b) lost or c) we don't know
wkwing789 [11k\]: thank you:)
Sedol87: another fight will start
Ootakamoku [2d\]: d16 to go all in
pivoglotov [5k?\]: YES!
ftroiset [1k?\]: w has 50 pts sure, b ?
HisokaH [-\]: before, they need to finish fuseki koffein :p
mozarto [?\]: c)
LAhvac [-\]: b
grandaure [5k\]: b has to severely attack h13 ?
Thumb [3d\]: thans to P14 the north isn't too big
Thumb [3d\]: *k
Koffein [-\]: grandaure, how?  k13 is almost dead
Ootakamoku [2d\]: reasonable way to play here is probably is one of f15 g14 f14 I think
royu [5d\]: anyways, b lost I feel
Koffein [-\]: b lost a long time ago
Namastee [4d\]: now w has a lot of cash
Ootakamoku [2d\]: to me it feels like b was more behind 40 moves ago than he is now.
pancake [-\]: K15 feels right
goteist [1d?\]: k11 not strong
goteist [1d?\]: hard to attack
Koffein [-\]: taka, it's not a matter of points, but a matter of possibilities to catch up
grandaure [5k\]: ok
megaschaf [1k\]: looks like over to me
Ootakamoku [2d\]: koffein, well, in way of points, I feel w leading more now than 40 moves ago, in ways of catching up, I feel this position more hopefull for b
x0000 [-\]: f14 
Koffein [-\]: h13 is the only weak group for white, and black can't attack it without killing himself
Eduardo [2k\]: f14 looks like wrong direction :/
P0tat0 [?\]: ok i'm breaking this negative aura that's floating here
Thumb [3d\]: G13 J12 H14 K12, then something sever up north?
P0tat0 [?\]: black is obviously ahead by 40 pts ^_^
Thumb [3d\]: *e
Ootakamoku [2d\]: d16 is still one way to try to get a miracle
Reym [-\]: ok
Koffein [-\]: i guess you need to be surma to play d16 
behta [1d\]: N15 for me
goteist [1d?\]: no hope
Eduardo [2k\]: b can to attack and territory :/
pojki [5d\]: E16 only move
profan [-\]: so what would you play now direct attack or a big d15 like move?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, d16 is ridiculous investment in a very vague and uncertain dream
Eduardo [2k\]: but n15 isnt so good
batz [1d\]: if b captures j10 and n4, he'll be behind only by 10 pts
pancake [-\]: K14 is annoying for b, since w becomes strong quite easily, I'd play K15 
pojki [5d\]: E16 to split ws groups and attack
Ootakamoku [2d\]: actually, looking back at the game fan hui lost to roln, the way it looked to me fan hui tried to catch up, was breaking more basic principles, ie leaving groups weaker, playing a bit thiner, pushing from wrong side, etc.
AzureSea [4d\]: who's playing
mozarto [?\]: fan hui w pavol 
grandaure [5k\]: w fan hui b lisy pavol
mozarto [?\]: b
Eduardo [2k\]: hui vs cheater
AzureSea [4d\]: ok
kmr [1d\]: Ootakamoku it was quite rapid game
profan [-\]: CLOCK CHECK please :)
Tmuch4me [?\]: fan hui = milanmilan?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: no
Amoxi: fan hui = fanhui
Eduardo [2k\]: fan hui=fanhui xd
kmr [1d\]: nope but same rank
Tmuch4me [?\]: who is milanmilan then?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: peter
backpack1 [2d\]: milanmilan= Li Yuanbo
Carpenter [-\]: black is a little behind in points
profan [-\]: time check please!
fkgplloyl: Shum Ting Wong
Ootakamoku [2d\]: "a little" XD
Thumb [3d\]: the possibility of K12 hels W quite a lot
Thumb [3d\]: *helps
mozarto [?\]: w has power radiating all over the board
Thumb [3d\]: (if B plays D16 or the like I mean)
Evaugh [3k?\]: 200 pri
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b k15 would probably be the honest play, but I just cant see how b could afford to play honest here
Koffein [-\]: w has atleast 50 sure points
Koffein [-\]: b .. 20
profan [-\]: if black doesnt play now around k13, it would be hard to attack later
Eduardo [2k\]: d6 :/
TurtleDove [4k?\]: c3
chouchou [1k\]: black needs miracles to wi nnow
pancake [-\]: something not more or less attacking H13 = resign
mooooo [5k\]: cheating is just another word for miracle
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b f16?
royu [5d\]: b should play q3, and then just start laughing maniacally 
Thumb [3d\]: The E16 or D16 ideas look fun at least^^
mozarto [?\]: lool royu
x0000 [-\]: b can't play q3 =(
Thumb [3d\]: Yes he can*
Ootakamoku [2d\]: x0000, sure he can, its live board
Ootakamoku [2d\]: just put a stone there
mozarto [?\]: i totally figure him laughing maniacally
Ber [1d\]: Tout dépend de l'attaque  du groupe j9
Koffein [-\]: q3 is a valid move, you just have to force white to capture the group first
Ootakamoku [2d\]: he should smash it real hard at q3 too
batz [1d\]: egc having lunch?
Evaugh [3k?\]: Well that is one move fan certainly didn't read
royu [5d\]: my feeling is f14 is the important side, or jump to something further than k15, like j16
synthol: certainly ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b could play in bottom left too actually
ThiGar [3k\]: c6?
Evaugh [3k?\]: probably
Eduardo [2k\]: j16, i like
Jonerick [7k\]: wouldn't 3-3 in lower left be painful for white?
nanotech [2k\]: b can only r.....
kmr [1d\]: K13 stones are sacrificable, if black can get top for them it would be good for him. i support J16 kind of move
batz [1d\]: ..ead deeply?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b c4, maybe c6 or d5
mozarto [?\]: lol not painful
x0000 [-\]: how many points on board b is behind already?
]
;B[fd]C[floating [2k\]: fan's been solid this tournament. At least playing at the denoted 2p level ?
Koffein [-\]: x000, about 30
backpack1 [2d\]: d5... seriously ?
Weakling [1d?\]: about 30
Eduardo [2k\]: :/
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, f16, I guessed it :) (along with 20 other possible moves I guessed)
nanotech [2k\]: b, if he playes realy good would lose for s10----25-30
synthol: f16 looks really good
Liso66 [?\]: fighting falcon
synthol: what are w options now ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: d15 natural response, but maybe not appropriate here
Koffein [-\]: attack the k13 group?
synthol: he obviously cannot let h13 be surrounded
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I guess w h15
Minininja [1d\]: h15 ?
HelloQtion [-\]: b not that strong around
mooooo [5k\]: k11 weak group
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, maybe something agressive even, like k14
yamihc [5k?\]: can we have the time please ?
kmr [1d\]: wow, nice move is he planning to D15 and cut off D17 and fight for all?
TurtleDove [4k?\]: W prob wins even if j9 dies
Koffein [-\]: technically .. n8 m7 q7 and b has only 1 eye .. w might even wait for a chance to cut at g11 
floating [2k\]: if and when fan hui wins this game, Ibet we want to see someone outside europe who would be a favorite to play an exhibition match against fan with these time settings in near future 
batz [1d\]: j14 too dorect?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: batz, usually bad idea to lean on a weak group, but it looks like it might work nicely here
synthol: n8 doesnt look sente ?
Weakling [1d?\]: W could sacrifice h13 group. If he gets ~10 points and limits the possibility for b to develop.
kmr [1d\]: black has fighting spirit no doubt
]
;W[fg]C[royu [5d\]: nice feeling to j16 but at the same time kind of loose... b has weaknesses on f11 and f13
batz [1d\]: b has weak groups all around - hard not to lean to one ...
Eduardo [2k\]: g12?
kmr [1d\]: black has only one weak group
pancake [-\]: g12 sequence will kill k13 eduardo 
Minininja [1d\]: so does w
ptilu [2k\]: might kill*
ThiGar [3k\]: @floating, i would see Fan vs BBW
x0000 [-\]: d16 
Eduardo [2k\]: j16 now, then :/
pancake [-\]: well, if b continues with it it WILL kill k13 
]
;B[gh]C[royu [5d\]: hum...
]
;W[hh]
;B[gg]C[ftroiset [1k?\]: actually, after m8 and r7, b is npot completely alive
synthol: b has a plan
Eduardo [2k\]: i did read good for b :/
Eduardo [2k\]: k13 isnt important, the most important is to attack d17
synthol: b k15 looks dangerous
batz [1d\]: w lucky that's his turn
mooooo [5k\]: cigarette smoke is dangerous
synthol: only if u dont have open your window
Icare [1k\]: l10 then wedge at k12 and b seems to capture no ? not good style but works ?
Icare [1k\]: w* seems to 
Koffein [-\]: h14 g14 k14 l14 l13 is a kill
strange123: hi, who is winning?
batz [1d\]: i've been told they invented some bio-cigarette which is actually good for health
]
;W[jf]C[strange123: if this is a chocolate cigarette then its fine
ThiGar [3k\]: Now we see k13 was no small ko threat
mooooo [5k\]: i dont beleave that
synthol: isnt that weed cigarette ?
Koffein [-\]: ah, the "elegant" way :)
bleen [-\]: now we see k13 was no threat
bleen [-\]: at all
mooooo [5k\]: and where is the fun if the smoke is good for you?
strange123: is that the chocolate cigarette? i put that on icecream
ThiGar [3k\]: elegant? k14 quite brutal
bolbi [-\]: back to the game, please
bleen [-\]: thanks
synthol: u can be brutal and elegant when playing
strange123: thx
strange123: so, who is winning?
Eduardo [2k\]: j14
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w
synthol: still w
allwelcome [3d\]: b?
Koffein [-\]: strange, look at the board ..
strange123: hard 
royu [5d\]: ok, play some weird crazy move like b17
klausP [7d?\]: you need to be seokbin to win this with black
strange123: ok royu ^^
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hane to answer this or its trivla to kill k13
bleen [-\]: so difficult for b, the game is only played on his side and he won nothing
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and k13 dying is not recoverable on any measure
Koffein [-\]: royu, i already considered c16 :)
synthol: b 17 b15 ?
nanotech [2k\]: h14 ok
Ootakamoku [2d\]: or b playc 17, I think w could even just tenuki and play l14 or some such
Ootakamoku [2d\]: c17*
synthol: l13 >
synthol: l14 sorry
synthol: is it possible ?
Eduardo [2k\]: nops
allwelcome [3d\]: w has no hope
synthol: why ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: l14 if possible
Evaugh [3k?\]: j14 k12 , no? 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: is*
synthol: thx
x0000 [-\]: no time for l14 right now I think
Amoxi: no time?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I still think there is nothing on the board remotely big enough for b to win with, if w is allowed to kill k13
Minininja [1d\]: timing he means amoxi
x0000 [-\]: Then it's hopless for b
Amoxi: yeah it's just a bit laughable
royu [5d\]: b no time to save k13 in gote
akairyuu [2d?\]: oh dear. this is one messy board, some pretty hard fighting has taken place here :o
WiteDragon [4k\]: yeah one giant ko fight in the beginning till some moves ago
rsun [4d\]: is the final 1 match or 3 matches?
Koffein [-\]: bo1
Eduardo [2k\]: 1 rsun
rsun [4d\]: that's sad
mooooo [5k\]: well hui winning 2 to 0 doesnt make it better
WiteDragon [4k\]: is that different in aga?
EdhelDil [3k\]: i wonder why go for k11 at the risk of having b take whole top?
EdhelDil [3k\]: it's big, but isn't sides bigger still?
batz [1d\]: would two moves in a row help b here?
gruik [1d\]:  if w has no more weak groups he's won
Minininja [1d\]: b fought well so far sor such a hard possition
rsun [4d\]: two moves in a row: n11 n10
gruik [1d\]: so capturing K13 seems good
x0000 [-\]: t4 and s5 would be helpful
resusou: time left?
powgo [5k\]: k
Thus [3d\]: go europe!
Thus [3d\]: oh he's losing
synthol: europe is loosing ?
Terao2sei [8k\]: ?
Hellhuman [-\]: go lisy
royu [5d\]: unloose the kraken?
]
;B[kg]C[rsun [4d\]: you mean euro is losing
Eduardo [2k\]: nooo :/
Minininja [1d\]: ohhh ? this looks like resign sequence
kmr [1d\]: yeah relase the KRAKEN ^^
Chade [3k\]: oh dear
floating [2k\]: ez nice move
Weishenme [4d\]: simply J14 making miai M15 and g14
Minininja [1d\]: i thought b would go for n14 
synthol: if w keep pushing l14, b can turn at j14 ?
Weishenme [4d\]: for ex j14 l14 g14 f14 f15 e13 e15 
royu [5d\]: i don't get b's plan...
]
;W[hf]C[royu [5d\]: h14 l14 f15 
synthol: maybe b dont get it either
royu [5d\]: good for w
Eduardo [2k\]: heavy for b now :/
royu [5d\]: seems obvious that l14 and push to left of h14 are miai
MooDoGo [3k\]: gaining libs for isolating j10-group?
ftroiset [1k?\]: b has a lost game now
MooDoGo [3k\]: h14 counters
]
;B[le]C[synthol: isnt w group surrounded ?
lokiasama [3k\]: r11 dead
MooDoGo [3k\]: witch group?
Jonerick [7k\]: s10 dead
synthol: im talking h14
Weishenme [4d\]: g14 or f 15
synthol: only one way to go ?
liquescens [1d\]: really dead ?
MooDoGo [3k\]: s10 is death, but p13 with no eyes means reaping the harvest
pancake [-\]: F15 for white
liquescens [1d\]: k9 + l14 ajis cant make it alive?
royu [5d\]: m15 leaves a lot of aji too, in case w desperate for life
liquescens [1d\]: h16 now?
rsun [4d\]: f15 then b push cut
]
;W[kf]C[rsun [4d\]: so w push cut first
]
;B[lf]C[synthol: how does he cut ?
lokiasama [3k\]: knif
Eduardo [2k\]: m14 is cut
EdhelDil [3k\]: m13 
synthol: m14 is b
rsun [4d\]: l14 only makes sense if followed by cut
Eduardo [2k\]: the ladder works , yes
synthol: m13 m12
Eduardo [2k\]: but b can to capture
Minininja [1d\]: some missread?
Amoxi: and then...
Eduardo [2k\]: w*
royu [5d\]: l16 is an option
EdhelDil [3k\]: m12 then, threaten both m13 k12 
royu [5d\]: if l16, w f15 has no weaknesses
Minininja [1d\]: l14 looks strange
synthol: m13 m14
synthol: arf
rsun [4d\]: maybe w is thinking L12 k12 m13
synthol: i keep misstyping
mooooo [5k\]: m13 seem to fail m12 n13 o13 n14 o14 n15 n16 o15 o12 
]
;W[hd]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: g14 ?
]
;B[dd]C[LAhvac [-\]: How much time is left?
synthol: im not sure w mid group is that safe
Eduardo [2k\]: w is alive
synthol: h group
TurtleDove [4k?\]: I'm no longer sure that W wins
royu [5d\]: this line is interesting too - at some point b needs to defend w f15, then w can jump to o16?
mooooo [5k\]: well i would lose it but considering w's strength im sure it will be alife
synthol: o16 now ?
royu [5d\]: actually, I don't like o16 
pancake [-\]: why didn't w play M13?
]
;W[lg]C[Eduardo [2k\]: yeah, cut
royu [5d\]: maybe w n16 better
synthol: hu ?
pancake [-\]: why now and not before? : /
Hobbes [2k\]: ladder
mooooo [5k\]: i wonder what they'll du different from my variation
pancake [-\]: hobbes, ladder?
leimao [3k\]: no ladder
Amoxi: -_-
Eduardo [2k\]: because h16 is an important move locally
mooooo [5k\]: but b can play ladder then deffend at o12 and w is cut
Idn [3d\]: it works ??? how ?
ThiGar [3k\]: m12 only move?
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: time?
pancake [-\]: h16 d16 exchange is terrible if this is gote for w
Minininja [1d\]: b has some hope 
MooDoGo [3k\]: now there is no aji on the k14 stones?!
Hobbes [2k\]: m12 n13 o13 n14 o14 n15 n16 o15 o12 p15 p12 ....mess
Badduck [5d\]: y h16 seems important
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: egc2013a, how much time for the two players?
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: (please)
pivoglotov [5k?\]: /
batz [1d\]: maybe you need to ask in polish
MooDoGo [3k\]: after w n15 b p15
Hobbes [2k\]: oh...yes.
synthol: c6 ?
EdhelDil [3k\]: k8 becomes a losing group... so that ko fight was working in b favor after all
Minininja [1d\]: m12 n13 o12 o13 p12 l12 w is 1 lib short
]
;B[lh]C[Idn [3d\]: b m12 w l12
Idn [3d\]: l12
Eduardo [2k\]: :/
Eduardo [2k\]: ok
Eduardo [2k\]: m14 dead then
Tristero [3d\]: yes
Scorpius [3d\]: l12 l11?
Defense7 [4d\]: just o15
Idn [3d\]: l11 n13
Minininja [1d\]: same story different order?
Defense7 [4d\]: or o16
chudu [2k\]: how much time do they both have, EGC2013a please!
Scorpius [3d\]: uh n13 then just o13 and chase out then o12? am i missing something
Eduardo [2k\]: seem, i am reading a sacrifice now
batz [1d\]: at least w can capture l9 in sente
Eduardo [2k\]: b can to want territory around m17 after
synthol: yeah l9 is so big
]
;W[mg]C[Scorpius [3d\]: oh sorry i didnt notice the right b was dead -.- just joined the game
Minininja [1d\]: w can take l9 but in sente? 
Minininja [1d\]: what is the sequence batz?
batz [1d\]: o12 q12 o13 l12 n14 j12
batz [1d\]: maybe even better
Namastee [4d\]: w will take m15 in sente
Eduardo [2k\]: o12 q12?o.o ???
batz [1d\]: initially i swa o12 o13 p12 l12 - w one lib short, but atary on l9 posslible
AlTheHell [1k\]: j14 
batz [1d\]: rithgt, p12
batz [1d\]: (no typing hero here)
sung [7k\]: o13 n14 o13
]
;B[ng]C[Eduardo [2k\]: p12?
sung [7k\]: o13 n14 o12
batz [1d\]: l12
Eduardo [2k\]: w no p12
pourri [4k\]: b is gonna kill P14 but will lose more, won't he ?
Eduardo [2k\]: w can to capture, winsfor liberties
Shinichi56 [-\]: i think w misread
lokiasama [3k\]: lol
batz [1d\]: n14 - b's next move?
Weakling [1d?\]: i think w capture m15 
floating [2k\]: w gonna kill M15 and even in sente
Tlaloc [2k\]: who beat out ilya?
mooooo [5k\]: maybe o16 now then kill b although he got n13 
mooooo [5k\]: i think lisy pavol beat ilya
Shinichi56 [-\]: n14 o14 n15 n16 o15 o12 
]
;W[mf]C[Minininja [1d\]: w could have l12 and connect here?
Minininja [1d\]: instead of n14 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: would be epic, if w lost by 1 point, because he ends up playing t10 when his dragon ends up eyeless
Eduardo [2k\]: ???
mooooo [5k\]: that would be epic indeed
HelloQtion [-\]: shini m16 l15 p12 possible after that
Eduardo [2k\]: ootaka sounds too epic for real xD
floating [2k\]: hmm oh
HelloQtion [-\]: looks more comlicated than just "missread"
Tlaloc [2k\]: i think w wins this
Liso66 [?\]: EGC PLS TIME
Bieber [2d?\]: Lisy likes me on facebook :)
Eduardo [2k\]: XD
mooooo [5k\]: i wish egc2013a would describe the players reaction and tell us the time left
Ootakamoku [2d\]: he is not in the same room
synthol: yeah virtual love
MooDoGo [3k\]: who gets o12?!
Eduardo [2k\]: yes, Usgo wasmore nicexd
CBlue [?\]: how comes Eurogotv isnt on the Euro congress?
tuquedenne [4d\]: he is but not near the players
tuquedenne [4d\]: which is a pity
CBlue [?\]: oh ok
CBlue [?\]: yes!
Shinichi56 [-\]: hello p12 p15 :)
GoKlaus [1d?\]: I guess, he has only the livestream being not in the same rome
Boviz [5k\]: EuroGoTV isnt there
chico [3d\]: is this really working for w? 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o14 n15 n16 o15 o12 for fun
mooooo [5k\]: no it should work
GoKlaus [1d?\]: room*
Minininja [1d\]: o14 l12 
mooooo [5k\]: shouldnt*
Idn [3d\]: o14 n15
HelloQtion [-\]: p15 o16 atari on n16 and l12 would be atari b
nepal999 [1d?\]: it looks like b has a problem
HelloQtion [-\]: so this kind of miai for w
HelloQtion [-\]: but after that j14 aji seems complex
HelloQtion [-\]: And I think I would missread everything here :)
floating [2k\]: how many moves are they reading ahead right now ?
mooooo [5k\]: w 0 b 2
omgn00b [6k\]: millions
GoKlaus [1d?\]: hopefully enough :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: if fan is going there, i guess it's working, otherwise he'd have played around l16
Shinichi56 [-\]: w is ok by double ko hello
nepal999 [1d?\]: o14 n15 o12 ?
esrig [7k\]: 2:20 am in Europe?
synthol: i read somewhere that in a top pro game one of the players read sth like 200 sequences, each one having around 30 moves
Tristero [3d\]: I recently played In-seong and he read out a very complex sequence with 3 hard to find tesujis that went over 35 moves in 30 seconds
zaboomafoo [3k\]: w is undefeatable in this tournament
HelloQtion [-\]: double ko ?
synthol: for one move
HelloQtion [-\]: I didn't even read only one :)
strange123: triple ko seki
Shinichi56 [-\]: i thought you meant s14 sry
tomason: esrig: you are only 12 hours wrong ;-)
MooDoGo [3k\]: @ nepal999: w answers with m16
P0tat0 [?\]: quintuple ko with sepuku
Ootakamoku [2d\]: all variation I read end up with k11 and n13 dying
Ootakamoku [2d\]: or something similar
strange123: what happens if happens a triple ko? game must be played again or draw both winners?
pivoglotov [5k?\]: /
LAhvac [-\]: zaboo: he lost one game to Ilja, I think.
mooooo [5k\]: triple ko egc ends has never happend all players drive home
esrig [7k\]: hah, thanks
Minininja [1d\]: o14 l12 l11 n15 o15 n16 m16 o12 k12 n11 l12 o16 p15 m17 l16 l17 k16 
zaboomafoo [3k\]: ah ok
strange123: ninja is ninja
HelloQtion [-\]: this ninja seq too long
EdhelDil [3k\]: synthol: a very famous game where shuko beat kato masao in a huge killing sequence lasting more than 60 moves, with hundreds of possible variations. Shuko took 2h59mn to think about the winning move (over his 8h total)
zaboomafoo [3k\]: I missed a game or two but assumed he won
Muttley [2k\]: triple ko, according to EGC rules, is resolved by rock-paper-scissors.
strange123: rock papers?
strange123: hahaha
tuquedenne [4d\]: :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: mininja, b will compromise if you do that, becomes o14 l12 n15 k12 j12 l11 j13 j11 j14 
strange123: same as alex kid
]
;B[if]C[Tristero [3d\]: rock papaer scissors spock lizard I'd say
mooooo [5k\]: oO
floating [2k\]: coolio
mooooo [5k\]: j14
EdhelDil [3k\]: synthol: and fan commented it, saying "here, he wasn't just sleeping "oh, it's my turn to move??" : he actually read many, many sequences, some very long, to try to find the best move")
Muttley [2k\]: that's a fighting move :)
floating [2k\]: I guess lisy read the shinichi+helloq sequence
mooooo [5k\]: nuh may god he played j14
MooDoGo [3k\]: asking move?
]
;W[ie]C[synthol: yeah that the one
YO1d: k15 ..
synthol: do you remember the name of the players ????
megaschaf [1k\]: k15 ?
P0tat0 [?\]: but then fan found the duck move and crushed black
EdhelDil [3k\]: j13 l15 and now n14 escapes!
synthol: i totally cant find this video again
Thus [3d\]: k15 fails
EdhelDil [3k\]: synthol: i'll find it
malu [?\]: this game is a brutal game
mooooo [5k\]: why not o14? i dont get it
MooDoGo [3k\]: k15 + l15 + o15 + o12?
Thus [3d\]: this game is finished
Thus [3d\]: europe lost
TurtleDove [4k?\]: brutal ? have you seen rollerball ?
synthol: would be nice to have more fan analysis videos
]
;B[nh]C[Shinichi56 [-\]: france wins? :)
Tristero [3d\]: uh
synthol: rollerball is for pussies who dont play go
megaschaf [1k\]: think so too lisy will resign soon
strange123: wow synthol
Ootakamoku [2d\]: nice sequence
megaschaf [1k\]: or maybe not ?
synthol: france wins nth
strange123: calm down man
synthol: maybe fan will
]
;W[me]C[megaschaf [1k\]: ..maybe ^^
jakotaki [1d\]: not France pls.....
strange123: don't use this worlds synthol 0o
strange123: words*
synthol: which words ?
Shinichi56 [-\]: fan is french now babe
Eduardo [2k\]: o..o
P0tat0 [?\]: i just had to hide my little kid's eyes from the kgs chat
jakotaki [1d\]: o0
Eduardo [2k\]: what?
jakotaki [1d\]: was ?
]
;B[md]C[P0tat0 [?\]: please don't use bad words
synthol: he might be french but he's the one playing, not france
strange123: my kid just watched that
bolbi [-\]: synthol : enough
synthol: which bad word did i say ?
Eduardo [2k\]: P0taT0, oh king! :P
]
;W[ld]C[megaschaf [1k\]: oh man thats brutal
alanka [1d\]: do we really have to debate on this every single day????
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b crashed
Ootakamoku [2d\]: he didnt see n15 I think
strange123: w is gonna win! hi potato and eduardo
]
;B[ke]
;W[je]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: l15 k15 l16 o16 and nothing left to be done
]
;B[kd]
;W[nd]C[HelloQtion [-\]: n17 impossible
wade [5d\]: o14 
EdhelDil [3k\]: synthol: the shuko 2h59mn reading sequence is in : http://bibliographie.jeudego.org/video_commentaire_de_partie_fan_hui_1.php (starting by making b group 1 eyed, the actual move is many moves later)
]
;B[nf]
;W[ne]C[synthol: thx a lot
Ootakamoku [2d\]: oh
megaschaf [1k\]: ehhh ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: still has ladder.. but what a mess
HelloQtion [-\]: p12 n17 p15 ok for w
Ootakamoku [2d\]: p15 now for b
]
;B[oh]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: j13 sente eye, so left is ok, but o16 few libs...
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ah, right, ask for more and better libs this way
Eduardo [2k\]: O.O
Namastee [4d\]: very cheating equence
]
;W[kc]
;B[oe]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: oh!
pourri [4k\]: I said b would take P14 but lose more :D
megaschaf [1k\]: well sente ...
EdhelDil [3k\]: n17 and game over
Thus [3d\]: no need
nepal999 [1d?\]: not needed
backpack1 [2d\]: finite
EdhelDil [3k\]: ah yes ^^ silly me
Ootakamoku [2d\]: lol, now w actually has to play t10 in yose XD
Tlaloc [2k\]: take right side
HelloQtion [-\]: c16 so
Thus [3d\]: c16 
synthol: top against connection, that dont really looks like good exchange
Eduardo [2k\]: Wha difference with sacrifice directly?
Eduardo [2k\]: :/
Tlaloc [2k\]: haha left side 
EdhelDil [3k\]: c9 ?
megaschaf [1k\]: over ?
EdhelDil [3k\]: e17 ?
]
;W[ec]C[ToDie [3d\]: b got d16 
]
;B[rf]
;W[sl]C[Thus [3d\]: res now
]
;B[ed]C[megaschaf [1k\]: no
Poney [1d\]: g18 ?
megaschaf [1k\]: not yet
EdhelDil [3k\]: still ko t12 but hard to think of something b can do there
]
;W[cd]C[megaschaf [1k\]: d7 black for moyo
Thus [3d\]: no ko
ToDie [3d\]: you cannot res in this stage of a game, especially not in a final
P0tat0 [?\]: one doesn no simply beat fan hui :)
Thus [3d\]: its double ko
P0tat0 [?\]: not
Poney [1d\]: Lol it won't be much of a moyo ^^
]
;B[ce]C[megaschaf [1k\]: nope
EdhelDil [3k\]: megaschaf: moyo has to be huge to be worth something
]
;W[cc]C[megaschaf [1k\]: forgot that :P
]
;B[be]
;W[fc]C[Sifu [3d?\]: fan hui has this in the bag
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ok, where does b need to draw the border?
megaschaf [1k\]: ok over now ...
Ootakamoku [2d\]: everything nort of 6th line would be enough?
HelloQtion [-\]: d6 for trying something ?
]
;B[cn]C[backpack1 [2d\]: c4 is enough
synthol: can w cut this ?
EdhelDil [3k\]: c5 d6 b5 ?
megaschaf [1k\]: e6 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, w c4 is enough, not by big margin but still enough
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w probably ahead by 5 points if c5 d6 f4 
tomason: EGC how much time do they have?
MooDoGo [3k\]: SE is nice now
]
;W[gf]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: fan is not letting go ^^
Muttley [2k\]: b has no chance here
]
;B[eg]C[Muttley [2k\]: w will win by +10 I reckon
bensenseii [-\]: Yees
bensenseii [-\]: B is done for
Weakling [1d?\]: even if b gets the whole left, w wins by 10 or so i think?
Minininja [1d\]: b hoping to get something out the ko?
Muttley [2k\]: but b won't get the whole left :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: o17 big
ThiGar [3k\]: w's top and b's left are both 45pts
SzemingLi [1d\]: what ko?
EdhelDil [3k\]: c5 d6 f4 seems best now
MooDoGo [3k\]: b has to complicate to induce an error
synthol: g9 ?
Minininja [1d\]: s9 
mooooo [5k\]: anyone saw why b had to play j14?
esrig [7k\]: help w maybe
Muttley [2k\]: yes
nepal999 [1d?\]: c5 so bad shape, i'd rather c4 if playing in corner
synthol: j14 might have been for a ladder breaker
monnem [2k\]: w top is not more than 32-35
]
;W[en]C[Weakling [1d?\]: mini: w ko threat is t10 i guess... not much of a ko
megaschaf [1k\]: resign
Karl05 [1d\]: double ko so useless?
HelloQtion [-\]: moooo for creating something with m15stones maybe but wasn't working nicely
EdhelDil [3k\]: d5 ?
megaschaf [1k\]: over ?!?!
nepal999 [1d?\]: it's not really a double ko
]
;B[cp]
;W[cq]C[Minininja [1d\]: there is a ko there
Muttley [2k\]: mooo, the idea was to increase the liberties of m15 with k15 w takes l15 atari, if white had connected at O14, then b cuts when w connects and b wins semeai on n13 stones
megaschaf [1k\]: no
]
;B[do]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: e4 
YO1d: e3
KiraLNear [3d\]: e2?
Muttley [2k\]: hence, w resisted with n15 extension and discarded the two stones at p14
]
;W[ep]C[synthol: c8
Karl05 [1d\]: game is over
]
;B[bq]C[Shinichi56 [-\]: b3 
EdhelDil [3k\]: b4 c5 b2 
Idn [3d\]: probably ko
romamu [-\]: b4 b5
EdhelDil [3k\]: ah indeed
Muttley [2k\]: b4 c5 is terrible
EdhelDil [3k\]: i always forget this
]
;W[br]C[Muttley [2k\]: you are a go player :)
Muttley [2k\]: you cannot forget b5 :))
EdhelDil [3k\]: i do ^^ "wishful reading"
Muttley [2k\]: hehe, ok :)
EdhelDil [3k\]: (or rather, wishful guessing)
]
;B[fm]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: d7 possible?
Muttley [2k\]: I cannot get this move
Weakling [1d?\]: w still winning with 10. Doesnt need to start a fight here
YO1d: d7,e5, ..
pourri [4k\]: F6 ?
HelloQtion [-\]: take care of G9 cut mutt
ThiGar [3k\]: e6 is the fox in the hen house
jakotaki [1d\]: Lisy Lisy !
Turnipsi [1d\]: e5 and black will suffer if ko
Muttley [2k\]: mm, guess so, but the points on the left ...
rog [6k\]: e7
Muttley [2k\]: I'm guessing b makes use of the d3 aji
Weakling [1d?\]: doesnt matter. :P
]
;W[eo]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: d7 e5 f6 f5 f4 seems fine for w
YO1d: safe
YO1d: ty
Muttley [2k\]: hum, "I am ahead"
]
;B[dl]C[Thoravatar [4d\]: d8?
Thoravatar [4d\]: j
Weakling [1d?\]: and he is
EdhelDil [3k\]: b4 ?
synthol: u cant count now
Weakling [1d?\]: why not synth?
HelloQtion [-\]: b5 is enough ?
]
;W[bo]C[HelloQtion [-\]: seems so
synthol: u can
Muttley [2k\]: all the chickens coming home to roost
Turnipsi [1d\]: can c2?
Thoravatar [4d\]: no
YO1d: no
]
;B[bn]C[EdhelDil [3k\]: b4 almose sente (threaten a6)
HelloQtion [-\]: I would c7
batz [1d\]: but w' lead  is no longer by 30 pts
HelloQtion [-\]: cause it looks fun
Muttley [2k\]: b did well in the end, on the left
Muttley [2k\]: I thought he would make less, good job
EdhelDil [3k\]: muttley: yes, but white did well on the top in exchange
chico [3d\]: not enough... thats th pb
]
;W[co]C[Muttley [2k\]: yep, I still reckon w will be ahead on the board at the end
synthol: isnt fan strong in yose ?
]
;B[ao]C[Muttley [2k\]: synthol, fan is strong, period
ThiGar [3k\]: b did so well on the left as to still retain a small overall chance
]
;W[bp]
;B[lc]
;W[jd]C[backpack1 [2d\]: b lost the top, so its hopeless
Eduardo [2k\]: w + 12.5
Minininja [1d\]: ?
Weakling [1d?\]: at least 10.
synthol: thats really accurate
]
;B[mb]
;W[ld]
;B[kb]
;W[mc]C[zen99 [7k\]: Will Lisy's rank change after this if he wins?
]
;B[lb]
;W[jb]C[Eduardo [2k\]: yes
WVoron [5d\]: never
zen99 [7k\]: hehe
]
;B[hs]C[Weakling [1d?\]: really? isnt 7d for proffesionals?
]
;W[gs]
;B[is]
;W[gr]C[bensenseii [-\]: He's not winning anyway
bensenseii [-\]: 8d is for pros, not 7d
]
;B[ab]C[Weakling [1d?\]: ok
synthol: 1p is for pro
]
;W[nb]C[zen99 [7k\]: what is the record between these two in the comption overall?
Weakling [1d?\]: not egc
bensenseii [-\]: egf 8d is for pros too
WVoron [5d\]: over
]
;B[nc]C[Tlaloc [2k\]: ko battle to finish
nepal999 [1d?\]: k19 looked bigger than a18 to me
synthol: then fan should be 8d
EdhelDil [3k\]: just yose
EdhelDil [3k\]: l19 n16 m19 
Tlaloc [2k\]: no this is a ko, not yose
]
(;W[ob])
(;W[ff]C[bensenseii [-\]: Fan doesn't play as a pro anymore, eh
Eduardo [2k\]: o.o
Carpenter [-\]: undo ?
PRosen [2d\]: ??
Tlaloc [2k\]: huh?
]
;B[hj]C[Tlaloc [2k\]: sould be a ko
McCallaway [2d\]: mistake by scrib
megaschaf [1k\]: fun asked undo!!
McCallaway [2d\]: no undo
forssaken [-\]: no ways
PaCon [4k\]: after game analysis
strange123: i am back
strange123: how that game is going on?
rsun [4d\]: this is the perfect time to use se
strange123: any horriblid mistakes or normal?
synthol: normal
]
;W[ef]
;B[df]C[Weakling [1d?\]: yepp, SE is correct for all l/d situations here
bleen [-\]: ^^
rsun [4d\]: as usual
]
;W[el]C[selpahi [1k\]: but it counts n4 as dead
synthol: j11 still there ?
Idn [3d\]: omg
Idn [3d\]: :)
Turnipsi [1d\]: l7 group about to die now
Weakling [1d?\]: yeah... j11 looks strange to leave
JEGO [8k\]: E7
GoKlaus [1d?\]: e8 is soo cool
GoKlaus [1d?\]: e12 and than g11
GoKlaus [1d?\]: if b e7
rsun [4d\]: so b has to j11 trade
Turnipsi [1d\]: nice
]
;B[ek]C[codelyoko [5d\]: e10 
Eduardo [2k\]: nice spirit cheater, u can still!!
]
;W[eh]
;B[dg]C[codelyoko [5d\]: e10 after 
pourri [4k\]: w is going to destroy everything
]
;W[gi]
;B[fi]
;W[fj]
;B[ei]C[JEGO [8k\]: good job for lisy
]
;W[ej]C[Weakling [1d?\]: d11 f9 
megaschaf [1k\]: hehe
]
;B[di]C[strange123: man, i guess b is gonna win this
]
;W[fk]C[Idn [3d\]: bye bye
synthol: what is happening ?
nicat [1k\]: good time too resign
strange123: oh no... b lost
GoKlaus [1d?\]: crash
]
;B[hk]C[strange123: wow
Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, b had lost long time ago
Helita [4k\]: w is so strong !
bensenseii [-\]: Yes
strange123: hey bensensei
bensenseii [-\]: B has lost ever since f12
strange123: no more pizza account? :)
bensenseii [-\]: Hey
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this is just some post death twitches
synthol: d9 bigger than j11 ?
bensenseii [-\]: Not for now
pivoglotov [5k?\]: l7 dead?
strange123: okey :) i wish you return with pizza account, fun days really i liked that days
megaschaf [1k\]: e7 ?
]
;W[em]C[rsun [4d\]: c10
chudu [2k\]: w + re
rsun [4d\]: c9
Kretzsche [7k\]: can you please let the players decide when the game is over?
strange123: hahah
Ootakamoku [2d\]: no
Helita [4k\]: d10
megaschaf [1k\]: we decide
megaschaf [1k\]: lisy won!
strange123: we decide, epic rap battles of history
]
;B[dk]
;W[fl]C[dutch2dan [2d\]: c9 doesn't seem to work
megaschaf [1k\]: because im a lisy fan :)
pourri [4k\]: Q7 ?
strange123: i hope cheater wins
Muttley [2k\]: he won't
Muttley [2k\]: too far behind
ShuiTa: j11
synthol: not fan fan ?
Terao2sei [8k\]: Somebody cheat ?!
pourri [4k\]: oh, J11
GoKlaus [1d?\]: d10 looks terrible for b now
]
;B[dj]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: c6 dies if he plays j11
moi [1k\]: with e14 fan read that far ahead?
chudu [2k\]: Lisy is cheater?
strange123: yes
rsun [4d\]: how did you know
moi [1k\]: he's really strong...
strange123: b is cheater
rsun [4d\]: cheater only plays 15s blitz
pivoglotov [5k?\]: j11 ?
moi [1k\]: I knew it before but still :)
rsun [4d\]: or 10s
Terao2sei [8k\]: Hum, could you tell me which move ? The umpire said something ?!
zen99 [7k\]: Is the player Rolns the 7d Illya Shikshin ?
bleen [-\]: how much time left?
Poney [1d\]: j11 ?
megaschaf [1k\]: maybe he should play some longer games too sometimes ?
bleen [-\]: egc?
strange123: no, his nickname on kgs is "cheater" :)
Weakling [1d?\]: zen99, yes
konuk1453: b18
zen99 [7k\]: thank you~~
Terao2sei [8k\]: aaah....
Eduardo [2k\]: epic rap battles? xD
synthol: c7 possible ?
Weakling [1d?\]: or at least roln111 is ilya
GoKlaus [1d?\]: yes
]
;W[lr]C[zen99 [7k\]: any other big names on KGS that I should know of who have differenct names???
GoKlaus [1d?\]: to get d6 in sente
zen99 [7k\]: different
]
;B[ls]
;W[ii]C[Eduardo [2k\]: dinerstein vs silt :pxD, nicerap battle :p
pourri [4k\]: Q7
strange123: dinerstein = breakfast 
ShuiTa: m5
Muttley [2k\]: w+16.5
konuk1453: is he pro?
]
;B[ki]C[strange123: yes
strange123: professiona
]
;W[sj]C[strange123: ll*
zen99 [7k\]: ~
Ootakamoku [2d\]: t10 = please resign
Eduardo [2k\]: o18 ko?
megaschaf [1k\]: t10
moi [1k\]: he was
Minininja [1d\]: t4 
megaschaf [1k\]: lol
rsun [4d\]: sensational professional
megaschaf [1k\]: = common
globax [3d\]: L3 big
Ootakamoku [2d\]: probably better to play t14 instead of t10 but..
jakotaki [1d\]: p10 
]
;B[gc]
;W[gd]C[Icare [1k\]: Q7 kill center
strange123: ok, but can b win this game somehow? maybe some cheating skills :D
Eduardo [2k\]: ???
Weakling [1d?\]: Tien is Tormanen Antti
megaschaf [1k\]: lisy is tryin hard!
strange123: where is the stream, link please
Eduardo [2k\]: that is spirit!
]
;B[mi]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: I think b would have resigned if this was almost any other game except the egc maineven final.
]
;W[mj]C[norb [1d\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
grandaure [5k\]: http://egc2013.go.art.pl/page/live
strange123: thanks
ShuiTa: does anybody know what "Lisy" means in Czech?
qwerty1992 [4k\]: Fan Hui is Milan?
]
;B[gb]C[grandaure [5k\]: no
ShuiTa: does it mean "fox" or does it mean "bold"?
ponno [2d?\]: no
isa [3k\]: fan hui is fanhui
synthol: isnt lisy his name ?
]
;W[fb]C[JEGO [8k\]: g18 fantastic ^^
Ootakamoku [2d\]: g18 doesnt work
USSRMan [3d\]: troll move
Tlaloc [2k\]: yeah its not that great
konuk1453: Milan is Italian name obvs
bleen [-\]: even if b gets one point more with g18
bleen [-\]: it works
]
;B[cb]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: b c18 next to keep up with the epicness
Mukti [4d\]: B17
]
;W[bc]
;B[ib]C[Eduardo [2k\]: o.o
konuk1453: i19
]
;W[ja]C[synthol: l19 ?
rsun [4d\]: what's this
USSRMan [3d\]: i knew he would try something like that
JEGO [8k\]: lisy play those special moves
Weakling [1d?\]: this is desperation mode
JEGO [8k\]: j17
USSRMan [3d\]: not special moves
Mukti [4d\]: No chance in this semeai.
megaschaf [1k\]: true
rsun [4d\]: it is ayabot mode
]
;B[bb]C[Tristero [3d\]: setting the scene for resignation
USSRMan [3d\]: just losing so badly, you just dont care anymore moves
JEGO [8k\]: a17
Mukti [4d\]: A17 and over.
]
;W[ga]C[Tlaloc [2k\]: i think a17 was  trap
konuk1453: b lives if w a 17
megaschaf [1k\]: ahahaha
USSRMan [3d\]: chicken move
megaschaf [1k\]: not ven a17
GoKlaus [1d?\]: maybe b could live in the corner
]
;B[db]C[Eduardo [2k\]: o.o
Weakling [1d?\]: g19 is im am winning so much i dont even care anymore?
Weakling [1d?\]: i am*
HelloQtion [-\]: a17 j17 k17 d18 doesn't look easy for w
Eduardo [2k\]: amazing
pourri [4k\]: A17
Mukti [4d\]: P18 now
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I couldnt read life there even if a17
]
;W[sf]
;B[re]
;W[pm]C[Boviz [5k\]: Lisy means "presses" in slovak :)
synthol: omg
Thumb [3d\]: Sorry - just came back. What about N8?
]
;B[mo]C[Thumb [3d\]: oh. ok
]
;W[kq]
;B[mm]
;W[kp]
;B[js]
;W[jr]
;B[jq]C[Liso66 [?\]: t11 is useless?
Mukti [4d\]: P18 would be fun...
]
;W[fe]
;B[de]C[Weakling [1d?\]: liso, yes
Thumb [3d\]: A16 is large
Weakling [1d?\]: t11 s9 
Liso66 [?\]: ah yes I see
furyinthe [-\]: black is leadin?
konuk1453: a4
Ootakamoku [2d\]: no
furyinthe [-\]: g
PRosen [2d\]: lol
wongkinnam [-\]: .....
synthol: a17 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: after super reduction in topleft with g1 and c18 trickery, w is only ahead by 10 points
]
;W[cm]
;B[dm]
;W[dn]C[USSRMan [3d\]: i think fan hui vs roln would be a better final
]
;B[bm]C[zen99 [7k\]: what agood tournament; when is the next big one?
Eduardo [2k\]: black leading in amazing moves
strange123: they play very fast
pourri [4k\]: A17 doesn't kill b
Mocramis [1k?\]: isnt a17 chuge for both ?
]
;W[md]
;B[ob]C[rollstory [2k\]: but a16 means ko
tuquedenne [4d\]: roln only won 6 games out of 10 in the main
]
;W[ka]C[Minininja [1d\]: g7 
Mukti [4d\]: w still about 20 ahead.
strange123: w wins eduardo -_-
tuquedenne [4d\]: didn't deserve a final this year
Mukti [4d\]: He doesn't even start the ko...
strange123: w must be happy :)
Eduardo [2k\]: haha, yes, w + 12.5
]
;B[ac]C[synthol: isnt a17 1 point ?
strange123: SE is working nice now
Eduardo [2k\]: i said it 50 moves before
JEGO [8k\]: good point
guapo [2k\]: why didnt w played a17?
megaschaf [1k\]: g6 looks big ?
Eduardo [2k\]: in fact, 70 moves before xD
pourri [4k\]: it doesn't kill b
]
;W[ia]
;B[ea]
;W[fa]C[Mocramis [1k?\]: back could live on a dangerous ko for white
]
;B[gm]C[megaschaf [1k\]: g7
konuk1453: g7
]
;W[ma]
;B[na]
;W[la]
;B[nb]C[isa [3k\]: nice game
]
;W[ig]
;B[fn]
;W[fo]
;B[bd]C[pourri [4k\]: P6
]
;W[ha]
;B[eb]C[konuk1453: p16
]
;W[od]
;B[pd]
;W[ap]
;B[an]
;W[rk]C[Sedol87: w+16,5
]
;B[lo]C[JEGO [8k\]: w+17
]
;W[se]
;B[sd]
;W[sg]
;B[kn]C[synthol: l10
]
;W[lp]
;B[nq]C[goteist [1d?\]: p6?
]
;W[jp]
;B[on]
;W[jr]C[konuk1453: k17
Helita [4k\]: t4
]
;B[ks]
;W[jq]C[USSRMan [3d\]: t4 lose points
]
;B[kh]
;W[sq]
;B[qs]
;W[gn]C[floating [2k\]: when next kgs events like this.. other than usgo which happens in mid of nite
]
;B[kj]
;W[ih]
;B[jh]
;W[jk]
;B[oi]C[JEGO [8k\]: how the komi ?
]
;W[oj]
;B[mq]C[Carpenter [-\]: nice game
jakotaki [1d\]: shame on white people
Eduardo [2k\]: next year:/
]
;W[gl]C[zen99 [7k\]: how much of a handi cap would these players need against someone like Lee Sedol?
]
;B[gk]
;W[ss]C[synthol: what is prize ?
]
;B[ee]C[USSRMan [3d\]: probably 2
zen99 [7k\]: would they get one stone?
zen99 [7k\]: oh yeah?
Boviz [5k\]: 1000 Euro
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: 2.500E
tuquedenne [4d\]: @floating : french championship with european champion 23 to 25 august :)
Mocramis [1k?\]: 1 000 is for the we tournament
Shinichi56 [-\]: :)
megaschaf [1k\]: whats the result ?
Eduardo [2k\]: a kaya board
tuquedenne [4d\]: also thomas debarre, tanguy le calvé, rémi campagnie and so on
HelloQtion [-\]: well done tuquedenne
malu [?\]: Lee Sedol would easily win on 2h
zen99 [7k\]: I thought it would be even more
synthol: 1000e for european championship ?
Rukasu [3k\]: not even enough to pay for the flights, hotel, etc..
Sedol87: 2500 E for the chamion
malu [?\]: 3 or 4
zen99 [7k\]: that's what I thought
zen99 [7k\]: I thought maybe 3-4
Azumi93 [9k\]: Go Mr. Pavol!!!
mooooo [5k\]: game done
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: Fan Win
guapo [2k\]: counting
Azumi93 [9k\]: DAMn it
LApulca [-\]: floating : http://wygc2013.com/
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: by 16.5
Terao2sei [8k\]: hum, Azumi, Pavol has lost, just count...
Azumi93 [9k\]: Damn it
synthol: does egf have plan for european pro players ?
Azumi93 [9k\]: My money were on Pavol
Azumi93 [9k\]: Fan isn't even french
zen99 [7k\]: i thought white won
Terao2sei [8k\]: no he his
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: fan is french
Muttley [2k\]: Fan has taken French citizenship
mooooo [5k\]: i thin antti winning against ilya
sinnensis [1k\]: without komi w+10
Eduardo [2k\]: This is historic!! :D
guapo [2k\]: how do you take french citizenship?
Azumi93 [9k\]: but he is etnically a vietnamese?
Muttley [2k\]: hard fight, well done Lisy, not disgraced yourself
pourri [4k\]: what are they doing on the board ?
Muttley [2k\]: you apply
Sedol87: French european master, congratulation!
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: 10win and no loss that's a champion :)
InsaneC [2k\]: this is the championship game ?
Terao2sei [8k\]: Great answer Muttle ^^
fredo [2k\]: oh yeah
Muttley [2k\]: yup
HelloQtion [-\]: Yes Lisy played well imo :)
GoKlaus [1d?\]: was
synthol: u marry, u born, u stay in a church and call medias
Muttley [2k\]: hehehe :)
InsaneC [2k\]: so fan european champion??
zen99 [7k\]: im confused, who won?
Muttley [2k\]: first, you get "residency" - permission to stay
Sedol87: yes
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: yes
zen99 [7k\]: final score?
GoKlaus [1d?\]: yes
PRosen [2d\]: yep
tartarin [3k\]: superfan win ))
strange123: whats the count?
InsaneC [2k\]: first time for him?
zen99 [7k\]: wow
megaschaf [1k\]: score ?
strange123: congrats fan hui
Muttley [2k\]: then you can ask for citizenship from the govt
zen99 [7k\]: wow!
pivoglotov [5k?\]: asian european champion )
Lesmian [2d\]: French players on the 1st and 4th place, not bad, congratulations :)
zen99 [7k\]: thanks ecg
ankou [3k\]: No fun
Sedol87: Fan won both main+European chamion
Terao2sei [8k\]: At leat 15 points of difference
strange123: Asian European French Champion, congratulations
zen99 [7k\]: what was the score???
norb [1d\]: what are they doing?
strange123: they are reviwing
Muttley [2k\]: Thank you for an excellent game relay and overall tournament
GoKlaus [1d?\]: no ilja won we
strange123: reviweing*
Thumb [3d\]: Thank you scrie. Congrats Xiao Fan^^
Eduardo [2k\]: a Historic day for french XD
zen99 [7k\]: ok
TurtleDove [4k?\]: good job EGC2013a. 
HelloQtion [-\]: Thanks you EGC
strange123: tx egc and all
Muttley [2k\]: bold to give you a chance to see it :))
InsaneC [2k\]: thx egc :)
megaschaf [1k\]: thx all
zen99 [7k\]: Hey how come i cant BOLD my letters :(
synthol: for french ?
strange123: some of the best tournaments ever, just needed AUDIO on the next ok?
Muttley [2k\]: Because I'm special.
Eduardo [2k\]: france xd
tartarin [3k\]: tx kgs and egc 
zen99 [7k\]: lol
InsaneC [2k\]: thx to mom and dad too
floating [2k\]: will there be interviews on the website or somewhere
zen99 [7k\]: must be
Skewbrow [8k\]: Thanks for the show!
zen99 [7k\]: no, seriously, is it in options?
strange123: put  AUDIO on the next tournament, then its perfect, thx
rog [6k\]: and thx KGS
Muttley [2k\]: no, I'm an admin
guapo [2k\]: if your gunna ask, then ask for videio
Lesmian [2d\]: Muttley is more than human
zen99 [7k\]: ahhh
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: and official score is?
Blair [4k\]: hi, what is the result then ?
synthol: i hate it when people say their country won when one guy is playing
monnem [2k\]: thank you, organizers
zen99 [7k\]: Can we get audio next tournament??????
Terao2sei [8k\]: calm down synthol. It's just a way to celebrate, like for football
guapo [2k\]: why audio? is not like they talk all the game
norb [1d\]: and a cam on the player as well
synthol: i hate football
zen99 [7k\]: lol
strange123: i wanted AUDIO
zen99 [7k\]: well maybe some golf like commentary
Eduardo [2k\]: xD
Terao2sei [8k\]: Oh, ok. My bad.
zen99 [7k\]: hehe
strange123: but no AUDIO on all this tournament.. sad
synthol: and u can celebrate fan
zen99 [7k\]: what does Fan win?
zen99 [7k\]: BIg Bucks?
Eduardo [2k\]: 2500 e
ponno [2d?\]: w+16.5
zen99 [7k\]: ahhhh
Terao2sei [8k\]: A hangover tomorrow ?
zen99 [7k\]: wow
Eduardo [2k\]: yeah,a hangover too
AndEdhel [2d?\]: say bravo to fan. all wins, impressive. he seems almost back to his former strength
norb [1d\]: runner up?
Azumi93 [9k\]: So han is actually from China?
zen99 [7k\]: 16 points
Eduardo [2k\]: xD
Azumi93 [9k\]: fan*
zen99 [7k\]: Lisy lost a lot on the top left, didnt'\\ he
norb [1d\]: how much for the runner up?
tuquedenne [4d\]: fan was born chinese and now he's french
zen99 [7k\]: I thought Fan is Vietnemese
CoffeeTime [3k?\]: chinese origine but now he is french
zen99 [7k\]: ahhhhh
AndEdhel [2d?\]: born Chinese
HelloQtion [-\]: Actually Fan lost a game but still realy great
Eduardo [2k\]: fan is worldcitizen
Azumi93 [9k\]: Damn it
Eduardo [2k\]: :p
synthol: world citizen is a nice idea
Azumi93 [9k\]: next time Mr. Pavol will win
Terao2sei [8k\]: Toutes ces chinoiseries alors, lol. Bon d'accord, je sors.
kmr [1d\]: Fan lost game only in quite rapid game
Thumb [3d\]: Well, he's 13-1 on the whole
zen99 [7k\]: Why rapid?
strange123: rapidshare?
behta [1d\]: in the WE
HelloQtion [-\]: 60 min in we tournament
Shinichi56 [-\]: against who?
zen99 [7k\]: i loved that site, sigh
zen99 [7k\]: ahhh
HelloQtion [-\]: vs 150 min in main
AndEdhel [2d?\]: week end tourament is more fun than the main
zen99 [7k\]: he likes to take his time, so it seems
isa [3k\]: thanks egc2013a and players
zen99 [7k\]: pretty methodical
HelloQtion [-\]: against Ilya shini
Shinichi56 [-\]: oki
kmr [1d\]: thx EGC2013a ^^
zen99 [7k\]: ahh
Thumb [3d\]: *whom, Shini
AndEdhel [2d?\]: Zen: reading ahead takes time
zen99 [7k\]: I wish there were a way to cheat in Go, just liker Vegas
LupusEst [2k\]: ^)
tuquedenne [4d\]: not strange since Ilya is known to read quite fast very hard fights
Shinichi56 [-\]: ah oui? pourquoi?
guapo [2k\]: lots of ways to cheat in go
zen99 [7k\]: yeah, that must be why he lost in that rapid game (to AndEdhel)
zen99 [7k\]: oh yeah?
zen99 [7k\]: how can i cheat!
tuquedenne [4d\]: but 10/10 in the main is a very strong performance indeed
zen99 [7k\]: hehe
synthol: reading is cheating
ThiGar [3k\]: thx EGC2013a
synthol: its up to u now
zen99 [7k\]: but you are allowed to 
AndEdhel [2d?\]: Zen: however I saw him go from 3 to 8 stones against an French 5d in blitz (5 or 10mn, where is is extremely scary)
Eduardo [2k\]: u can to put one of your stones on rival'goke lol
synthol: 8 stones against 5d ??
AndEdhel [2d?\]: lost at 8
zen99 [7k\]: This was really the first tournament I had the pleasure of viewing. At firsrt I was stunned by how long it took, but then rather enjoyed it
zen99 [7k\]: oh?
synthol: 7 stones against 5d ??
tuquedenne [4d\]: which 5d was it ? :)
zen99 [7k\]: is that game on archive?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: but won at 3,4,5,6,7
AndEdhel [2d?\]: can't remember
tuquedenne [4d\]: and how many beers was in his blood too :p
zen99 [7k\]: and he was a pro before, yea?
wongkinnam [-\]: no pass
sylvain [2d?\]: still is
synthol: 3p
AndEdhel [2d?\]: yes, still is
zen99 [7k\]: I thought he was not doing it sdo much and wanted a break?
ThiGar [3k\]: still is
Drakemite [7d\]: who win?
isa [3k\]: white
AndEdhel [2d?\]: white (fan huo)
Drakemite [7d\]: so white new euro champ?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: hui
wongkinnam [-\]: black
synthol: option > se
AndEdhel [2d?\]: synthol: he may be on android
AndEdhel [2d?\]: I can't tell, being on android myself
zen99 [7k\]: Is there A Go supercomputer yet, that has taken all the pros on and ripped them to shreds?
synthol: nope
ThiGar [3k\]: yes, life
zen99 [7k\]: we wait~~
isa [3k\]: best computer is only kgs 6dan
zen99 [7k\]: haha
zen99 [7k\]: a kgs dan
zen99 [7k\]: oh my
AndEdhel [2d?\]: Zen: no, they win at 5 stones against non-stop pros
synthol: lost 9p on 9x9 i think
AndEdhel [2d?\]: non-top
synthol: not sure
zen99 [7k\]: but they need at least 5?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: in 19x19 yes
zen99 [7k\]: i see
bolbi [-\]: they need 4 or 5 stones to win
Thumb [3d\]: I think one won on 4 against Takemyia
zen99 [7k\]: ahh
bolbi [-\]: (bots)
wongkinnam [-\]: w go to pass
AndEdhel [2d?\]: which for pros is big (1p almost surely win 9p at 2 stones)
zen99 [7k\]: i never practised on bots on this site. I assume they have them on here for my rank, yeah?
bolbi [-\]: last games are wins versus pro with 4 stones
zen99 [7k\]: ah
synthol: in 5 years u will have your engine
ThiGar [3k\]: Willl the prize ceremony be streamed?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: to be considered pro level they need to win surely at 2 stones
zen99 [7k\]: ah
ataribenji [3k\]: Is there anything at s17 q17?
AndEdhel [2d?\]: could be possible, but still far
Azumi93 [9k\]: :(((((((((((
Azumi93 [9k\]: Poor Mr. Pavol
Azumi93 [9k\]: he must be feelng terrible
Azumi93 [9k\]: do you guys know his KGS handle?
zen99 [7k\]: are they streaming the ceremony?
zen99 [7k\]: he has a handle on kgs?
Azumi93 [9k\]: all white go players has, wow
zen99 [7k\]: I just learned today Rolns was Illya Shickshin
Azumi93 [9k\]: roln111
zen99 [7k\]: oh i see, thanks
eureka [5k\]: Pavol is cheater on KGS
Thumb [3d\]: "cheater". No, ataribenji
Azumi93 [9k\]: thank you!
zen99 [7k\]: "cheater"  right, i'll look for it, thanks~
zen99 [7k\]: this was like champions league football, except a lot less ego, media, money and hooligans.
Az]))))
